Ops On Top w/ Veronica Yanhs

0:00:05

Because there was something I was gonna say about deep. I'm glad you could find the button? Like, I can't think of a better start, Veronica. We're live. We're talking about buttons. All your buttons. Okay. Y'all, Lizette.

0:00:24

When I decided that I needed an ops program. The only person I could think to talk to was Veronica because ops is where I live, even if it's not what I do. There I have this deep, deep love for things that work well and things that fit together and ops is as Veronica, and I constantly bemoan, not sexy at all. So she's gone and made it sexy. Literally naked all over the place. It's amazing. Okay. If you need operational assistance, you need Verotica. I just need you to know that you are, in fact, my favorite ops person. So Thank you. Thank you.

0:01:24

Let's start with you a little bit, how you came here, who you help, what we're talking about for this series, all the things. Yeah. So on the topic of the whole being naked thing being laid bare, it is like philosophically, metaphorically, and literally like my life. Like, there's really nothing at my sleep unless I'm hiding a gift from someone, which I then probably will tell them, like, a few days later anyways. But ultimately, if I was to build a business that is filled with immense pleasure for myself, I it has to be branded this way. Like, I don't wanna show up any other way than what makes me feel amazing, powerful, confident, fun. Like, if I'm gonna poor, literally, blood sweat and tears into my business. You bet I'm going to be like flying this freak flag as high as I can so that I can show up as my highest self.

0:02:18

So anyways, I'm Veronica Yuan's founder and CEO of Business Late Bear. I love but stuff. We're the creator of the orgasmic operations method where we use that to work with early stage and growth stage startups and organizations dial in and create streamlined and well lubricated operations so that when you go fifty x tomorrow, you can confidently handle that growth and demand with pleasure ease and sustainability. I like how you just squeeze I like butt stuff in there. Just I mean, you create polarity. Right? Like, this brand just even showing up. And I know I keep talking about myself, this lip, but this ties and top operations, I promise. It's like you you're designing how you want things to run. And I'm like, this is this is my jam. I gotta be me. Because bad operations is like taking it in the ass with no lube. Is that I mean, really? Really? Unless it's your thing, but yes.

0:03:29

To me, like, operations, there's so many analogies we can use, but the easiest one I like to think about is that it there's two. One for the human body and one for, like, your house. So the it's purpose of this episode for us is to talk about like an awareness shift, maybe a mindset shift of like If you've never historically thought about operations or something, that was fun or exciting and you're just like it's very corporate and boring. It's like Well, how can we inspire you to fall in love with your operations even though you may not be the one handling it because, you know, you can bring in people like us But it's like you have to love it because it's the other side of the coin. It's the how that actualizes your what. Your mission, vision, purpose, goals, impact, desires, and allows you to actualize all those things in a much more efficient, faster, pleasurable way. You can bring your mission to life that much faster if you have good and tight operations and systems and processes to support it. So think of your operations as like the foundation and structure of a framing to your business house. Or you can even think about operations touching everything in your business, like the central nervous system in your body. It it goes everywhere because operationalizing something means you're creating predictability, you're creating the ability to replicate. You're creating consistency. So it's like, I know that every time I'm gonna bend my finger only one knuckle or two knuckles go down. It's not gonna just gonna randomly, like, fluke somewhere when I know that that's not how my body works unless it's, like, broken or something. So it's like operations touches how your body, your house, is built and works. Mhmm.

0:05:21

And I think that operations is frequently where people struggle. Because it is not sexy. It is boring. It seems it seems extraneous. I think, to a lot of people, which is why they come to me and can't do anything. And why so often then I'm sending them to you because, like, Oh, you don't need me. You need Veronica. You need to actually have systems structurally in place. Before we can grow.

0:06:01

And I think and to me, operations has always been this observation into how people operate and take action. Right? Because that's how we design our solutions. The reason why we're so good at what we do is because we approach it in a very people first and pleasure filled way. If I'm not designing the solutions for the individual or for the set of teams and taking into account what they need to not only, like, work, but to thrive, and to work from their zone of excellence at minimum, then I've failed. Me and my team have failed.

0:06:32

And I think the reason why operations has historically been Iki is because, one, yes, it's behind a seems you don't get all the glory, but two, people are often forced and to operate according to someone else's needs. And when you're forced to do something that's not in alignment with you, it doesn't feel easy. It doesn't feel like the back of your hand. And you're not gonna stick with it. So it's to me that that just and I I don't know how I'm trying to say this in so many words, but I'm like, to me, that's just forcing you to create resentment. Like, that breeds resentment over time.

0:07:13

And we'll see his operations are taught well in general. Wow. That's that's my opinion as well. I definitely agree with that. I don't think operations are taught well. I think we could do a whole another series about how the lack of teaching of operations has affected our systemic and cultural infrastructure. Right? Like, that's a whole another series.

0:07:37

Because if we understood operations, we would have a better sense of the ways in which This structurally impacts and benefits not just a company, but the world, which is sad because it's so easy to fix some of this stuff. So easy to fix some of this stuff. So when I think about operations, It's the literal, structural Legos that make patient easier for people. What's What are those things? What are the Legos? Yeah. There's so many Legos, but you're right. When you know what's expected of you? When the target or the goalpost never keeps moving forward.

0:08:31

So now you're gonna you're getting a sense of like some of my baggage that I've brought into operations is how I'm trying to shed it. It's like when you know what success looks like. It allows you to show up more confidently. It allows you then to in in a very cut and dry manner like, hey, I did the thing. And to me, it was successful. Do you agree? So not to say we're trying to take emotion out of this or intuition, but to be able to create cut and dry communication parameters, allows people to focus on taking action and leaves the personal bias out of it.

0:09:14

So operations to me, when done right, like, it's not about being productive. I think that word is way overused. It actually is harmful. Like, why would you wanna be productive? Oh, I made, like, ten thousand of these things. But if it wasn't, fun, joyful, and it's not sustainable. It's like, I don't think it's gonna help your business's bottom line or profit even. So I like to focus on efficiency and effectiveness. Were you able to because this is what you actually love doing and we're good at? Were you able to accomplish this thing in a shorter amount of time and have the work quality be that much higher.

0:09:56

So this is where clear communication comes in because when you have a set system in place. So, like, your operations, like, I'm a very visual person. So if you think of like a mind map where there's like that center circle or shape and then you have, like, branches like the sun. It's, like, think about your business operations at the center And then, like, what are all the little smaller circles and pillars that go into supporting your business to making money? Because if you're not making money, you have a ray expensive hobby. So it's like, fulfillment systems. Right? When people pay you for something, whether you are service based, software based, product based, you have to fulfill on what they pay you for. There are also day to day systems to make the day to day pleasurable, like, team communication, project management, So you begin to create these standardizations.

0:10:48

Like, to me, what I love about operations is you're drawing lines in the sand. That everybody can agree on so that, like you said, the communication is effective. The work is effective. And you're not, like, spinning in circles and you're saying getting things done like, oh, this graphic designer, what's considered complete for this blog post? Is the blog post. And then ten pieces of micro content to, like, shoot down to different social media platforms.

0:11:17

Like, if that's never defined, then the work never gets done. Person doing the work is probably, like, constantly wondering, am I doing this right? Is it good enough? And then maybe the person that's receiving the works, like, this is considered not complete, or this is not what I expected. So creating good systems and processes. You're right, allows for amazing communication.

0:11:38

And I think that the clear we are about I'm talking about guardrails a lot. Right? The clearer we are about those guardrails, the easier it is to define outcomes. And if you're not to finding our outcomes, then how the hell do we even know? I Right. If you're not defining your outcomes, it means that you're not moving the needle. Regardless of what you're doing in life and in business because and maybe and there is, of course, room to be left. For serendipity, for things to happen that you can't predict. But I'm just like, well, in business, you have to create some sort of predictability, but also leave room for serendipity, for dynamic stuff to happen. And operations does that really really well, if done right. So if there's nothing that you take away from today, is that your operations is like literally how you in your business take action.

0:12:45

And if people are, like, listening and going, oh, well, I'm creative and I'm not very operationally minded. It's, like, You have habits every day. You have routines. Once you begin documenting that, it becomes a process. Mhmm. And if I can't measure the process, then I can never improve upon the process. It's not even just about documenting it to start with. I can't ever make it better if I don't know what the parameters are.

0:13:21

So when people think of operations, I think the sensation is always one of overwhelm. Right? People come to you, they come to me, and they are completely and totally overwhelmed. They feel like it's never gonna get better. How does operations fix things? Yeah. So we're creating order. We're creating structure. We're changing the notion that in order to be a good preneur, you have to be able to fly the plane as you're building it. I mean, in some senses, yes, but if that is your normal mode of operation, your body is and your team members is are already experiencing so much stress and increasing cortisol. That it doesn't allow for any brilliance to happen. That cognitive load that you have really hurts because you're not being able to be proactive. So with operations, it's like, well, if you're flying the plane as you're building it. This is where we come in and this is where operations get to kind of like a negative rap and people don't like it, but when you work with people that are experts at what they do, the lag time is minimized because operations is kind of like a slowdown to speed up. Work.

0:14:46

And, god, you were gonna say something. What were you gonna say? Oh, oh, no. No. I like, I just I'm like, oh, I wanna play a game. When? Because this happens all the time. People will say they have a marketing problem or they have a sales problem. They do not have marketing or sales problem. When is it a marketing problem? And when is it actually an operations problem? Yeah.

0:15:16

So we get a lot of people that come to us going, no, we don't need to focus on operations. I need more sales. I need more marketing. And I'm like, okay. And by the way, I'm not in the business of needing to convince you. That operations are important. I used to do that and you know what, I have gracefully passed that baton to other people who will take on this more noble work. I am here to inspire you to care and to change your mindset and maybe create some awareness so that you find that operations are important. So when someone comes to me and they're like, no, I don't need operations. I'm like, great. That's fine.

0:15:50

Let me ask you this. Say that your marketing. Like, all the tens of thousands of dollars you pour into your marketing, your branding, your sales team, and all that stuff. And, like, things work. And suddenly, twenty clients or twenty x amount of customers have made purchases. Could your business handle it? Without it imploding, without you wanting to pull your hair out.

0:16:15

So what I'm trying to say is that if the answer is no, if you gut feeling, like, you should be able to answer this in your gut. Like, if twenty people came, twenty clients wanted to work with you or twenty x orders came in because things go viral really quickly, explosive, sudden rapid growth, all of this comes really quickly in this like Internet age, are you prepared to handle confidently the influx of demand that comes your way? And then the answer is anything but a hell yes. It means that your operations are not the level in which you want your revenue capacity to be at. So when I use the word capacity, it's not just more money. It's like do you have the capacity to be able to take this on in the most pleasurable way? So that's how you know if you need operations or more marketing. Yeah. The answer is usually operations.

0:17:14

If if the answer in and and y'all it's not It's not the off the top of your head answer. It's the one that lives in your gut. If I say to you, your business is about to explode. You're going to get a million new customers because you've got something just right over the horizon that's gonna be the thing that makes you that overnight success. If in your gut, you don't feel like fuck yeah. Bring it on, baby. You have an operations problem. And it is It's very interesting this role we play in because we're I feel like the middle child. Right? Like, we're competing with the brand, the marketing. And by the way, I love my brand. I love the marketing people that've done magic on our business. Right? So it's not to say that we are better than them. I believe we actually like a human helix, like the DNA helix. Like, we need to work on a little bit at a time. It's not like a criminal layer. It's like a little bit at a time.

0:18:19

And oftentimes, operations gets ignored until, like, the very tip where things are, like, where you feel like you're growing too fast. And I'm not saying it's too late, but it's often harder because then we have to, like, pump the brakes a little bit on your business and kind of pull apart the layers and layers of Band Aid solutions that you and your team may have put in to actually put in to create structure, to put in some discipline that will support your business so that everybody is actually excited to come to work and that there's no anxiety or, like, that really terrible pit in your stomach frustration feeling. Like, there is frustration and stress. Sure. We can't ignore those. Those are important feelings to have, but it's just like not every day. Not at the rate in which you want to have more excited and happier days than this. So your operations can't be ignored.

0:19:18

And we're we're sitting in a very interesting place right now where we have the opportunity because we've done the math, we've done the search. We've done the interviews. Not a lot of people are talking about operations in this people first and pleasure filled manner. And it's like we kind of had a responsibility show up and say, like, there's a better way. If the way that you're operating doesn't feel good, there is a better way to do it, even if it's a slight tweak. Instead of going ABC, it can be something as simple as a c b. But if you don't slow down to think about this, and to kind of do like a post mortem, more retrospective, or just even ask your team members, hey, what's not feeling so great right now? What's one thing we can fix, then change is never gonna happen?

0:20:05

We talked a lot around here about the flywheel cons steps. And operations is the wheel itself. The growth cannot happen if there is not a solid foundation. When we are talking about the foundational pieces of operations, I think people Honestly, this is where people's eyes start to glaze over. It's certainly where our viewer count dropped off. I said foundation and everyone went like, oh, shit, I'm leaving. No foundations here. And I think that's kind of really endemic to what we're talking about here. Can you give us some very concrete exam pulls of what solid foundations look like? Yeah.

0:21:00

I always wanna start off with so there's three parts of the orgasmic operations method. There's people, which is internal operations. And this is how our series of episodes are gonna go. Your internal operations are like the team facing day to day operation stuff. And then you have profit to me. This is your revenue operation. Systems and profit prophecies, systems and processes that make it easy to handle growth. And then the last Circle in the Venn diagram is presence. Basically, you're marketing operations. How can we operationalize how you show up so that you're attracting and retaining your ideal buyers with ease.

0:21:44

And so when we start with working with a client. Like, ideally, we wanna work with internal operations first. Right? Because if you don't have your day to day handled, if you don't have an easy way to communicate with your team members or manage information like SOPs or standard operating procedures. It's gonna be really hard when your business takes off. Right? However, However, sometimes in order to get people to buy into what we do, we talk about what they care about.

0:22:13

And what does every entrepreneur and startup CEO care about money. They want to make more money. So, to give you some concrete information or to give our clients. It's like we start off with systems and processes that make making money feel easier and with more ease. So that's some concrete things we can start with. Things like, let's let's pick let's pick an industry, like, how about product? Like e commerce. Oh. That's great. I love a good e comm. I love a good e comm biz. So because I buy a lot of things. So So what are some solid systems that you need to have down?

0:22:56

And to me, the definition of a system is not an app. It is actually a collection of the people, the process, and the tools working together to achieve a specific result. So what are those results? Getting products to customers. What is the process from a to z? So that's a system you need to think about? Or how do you print orders? Like, people don't even think about that a lot, or how do you and this is, like, inventory stuff now that we're talking about.

0:23:27

Inventory systems, like, is there the most optimal way that you're storing your products? Because some people are, like, have their products shelved in different categories that you can pick and pull orders. Like, I'm thinking like some of the TikTok videos I've watched. I think about like the the slime compute there's, like, so many variables and varieties of slime. It's, like, how do you pick and know where these orders are so that you can, like, minimize the time you're looking for the product to give to the client? Is it easy for clients and customers to pay you? That's another system.

0:24:02

And then here's one that I really really love that gets a lot of attention is onboarding. Mhmm. What happens when they go from prospect and potential customer buyer to an actual paying buyer. That first impression matters. So much. So that's another system. So these are concrete things in the revenue operations realm that we talk about. So hopefully, that's concrete enough. Like, Briar, like, how you make money, how you're sending your products out, how you're packing your products. How customers can pay because sometimes people are not making it easy for customers to pay, and there's a lot of buttons you gotta click. Right? So you have to think about the people that are interacting with the system, both you internally and your customers. Mhmm.

0:24:51

And what I like to think about here, especially with product, is how do you surprise and delight your customers. Like, if you can't standardize all the steps that go up to that, there's no way in hell you're going to be able to standardize a process where you're doing extra things. Right? My favorite tea company sends me a chopstick and some stickers and some extra he right. This is, like, every single order, and it gets here in two days because they clearly have incredible back end ops. I'm always so delighted when I open something and it's pretty and it smells good. Right?

0:25:49

I think we have to consider structurally what those foundations are. So when people come to you, Veronica, what does it how does this start? Most of the time it starts with a consult call, like they're booking a call, and I will ask you, there is no secret behind this. The very first question I always ask everybody is, what inspired you to book a call with us, to talk about your operations? Because that to me really sets the tone for what this conversation is going to be like.

0:26:27

Everybody has different reasons. For their operations, whether it's I want to just be able to go on maternity leave with confidence and not feel like when I'm gone and I have to and I'm here to choose between newborn and business that something's gonna drop. The other shoe dropping is a big fear. Someone or somebody else will be like, I have done the math, and I'm here to create such impact on the world that I wanna be able to be like a McDonald's. I wanna be able to have different locations run like a well oiled machine. Like every location just like a Starbucks is like pretty well oiled, but they each have their own, like, unique unique qualities about it. And then there are just some people who are like, I'm growing too fast. And I feel like I can't handle it. So everybody's intentions are different, but we always start with a consult call for that reason because then I know what drives them, what their problems are. And if we can solve them, and like here, this is the first that that it goes into when you work with business late bears. We will always do the assessment first.

0:27:33

The assessment is an audit. It's diagnostic. It's a roadmap. It's basically we're going into your internal revenue and marketing operations and seeing where things can be better. Where things can are really, really great because we wanna celebrate that. We wanna interview team members. We wanna audit your tech. We wanna give you a road map so that to go from here to there, this roadmap that we give you, this assessment bridges that. So that's how things begin.

0:28:00

Is we don't I just don't wanna make an assumption because that makes an ass out of me. And, like, based on the consult call, I I know a lot but that just doesn't sit right. And integrity is one of the business and minds core values. So doing this assessment is the right thing to do because then it gives you an option to show you, hey, based on where your business wants to go, those desires and pain points you wanna solve. Here's the roadmap. And we're gonna give you everything you need to do it so that you feel confident, but if you want to work with us and have us do it for you or with you, here are some options.

0:28:41

Let's talk about the road map because I think that's terrifying to people. How I know I know what you assess, and it's literally everything. And there's a there's a vulnerability there. Right? To I I mean, Operations is very much all the guts of the business, all of the dirt secret. You wish you could hide in the closet, but in fact, cannot oh, and look, here's my appsumo collection. I think that is what you call it. I think that is what you call it. Your comfort tech stack, and I was like, well, shit. Just call me out because I certainly have a comfort tech stack.

0:29:37

What is the immediate benefit from actually having an assessment done? Yes. So the immediate benefits that all of our clients experience is that they're just like Holy shit. I have a plan that just that that's it. That I could just stop there. Because oftentimes, I've come to appreciate that everybody has different ways of thinking about things. Everybody has different strengths. And it's like, if your strength is ideation being a visionary. It's like to be able to get the other side. Remember the how to your what? Be able to say here, step one, do this. And when we give the roadmap, we're literally in our brains creating and in real life, creating the roadmap for you because being scaffold. On top of each other. So that it's as you build things, it makes logical sense, and it's easier. Like, I'll give you a quick example, Briar.

0:30:36

We never recommend new team member, new hire onboarding and trading first. Why? Because if you yourself don't know how your business runs. How can you expect them to know how your business run and be set up for success and to feel em bold and empowered to take accountability, to take ownership. And then if you don't have that system in place, the person that's hiring, often we'll feel like a glorified babysitter or feel like they can't trust the new team member even though it's not the new team member's fault. And It's like a lose lose lose situation. Everybody is like, the customers, the customers will feel it, the team members will feel it, the hiring person, the CEO, the new team, like, everybody feels it. So it's like, that's almost always the last thing we focus on. And then when it comes down to actually building that system, it's like, here's the roadmap right away really quick. Because we already know what everything is, how you how you fulfill orders, how you manage your marketing campaigns, how you how you work with influencers to get the brand out, how your social media works. It's like we literally talk about all those things so that whomever so that when you have new team members come on board, they know how your business runs.

0:31:47

So the plan, knowing which things to do first, second, and third, etcetera, etcetera. Has been the most beneficial thing because it's not just nebulous anymore. It's like step one, do this. Step two, do this. And I think you feel hopeful. Yes. I I was just about to say. I think that the benefit of knowing what the steps are is cannot be understated. Because it's easy to just check some boxes if somebody has said, this is the way forward.

0:32:28

Now that said, why is operations the way forward and not sales or marketing or product or whatever? Because I inherently believe that if you are in the business of creating fact, creating change. Like, this is why I love working in the start of world or people that are growth minded. You're here to make money because I believe in doing good and doing well. This was a a lot of baggage that I had growing up because money was a very hairy topic. It's like, if you have a mission that you believe in with every fiber of your being, you're going to have ambassadors, you're going to have customers, you're going to have believers. It's really easy to talk about your desired life's work this way. But when it comes to taking action, it might not be as easy because then here's your brain that's more suited for ideas. And then other people have brains that can actually sift through, be in information that you give us the ideas, and be able to actually say, here's the concrete plan and make the idea come to life.

0:33:44

So if operations looks terrible in your business or if you always felt like you were a hot mess, it's not your fault. Right? Everybody has different ways, and we wanna hold that space, and we wanna honor. Like, this is what work with Businesslight bears like. We're not here to judge you. The fact that you've come to us and you're just like, Here's everything laid bare. It's a hot mess. Like, we've seen everything from seven plus figure businesses not having anything and their CEO saying, knock on wood, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, the business would be gone. These are seven plus figure businesses. I'm not talking about new entrepreneurs. So because they are really good at sales. They're really good at just getting more money and you cannot out make in revenue or outhire bad operations that actually exacerbates it and makes it worse.

0:34:31

So what I'm trying to say is your operations are important. Marketing is a little bit easier because you know what you're trying to accomplish. The how part is a little bit harder, and this is where people like us come in. So give yourself some grace is what I'm also saying. Yeah. The how the thing happens is not always your job to figure out And if you can figure out your house, the question should always be, well, who do I know that can figure this out for me, that is not always internal. So here's a question. What's the difference between in sourcing my operations to my team and outsourcing it to someone like you? That's a great question. And something we do all the time.

0:35:34

So to us, if you insource something, I would love to hope that you already have some structure, some systems and processes in place so that when you bring somebody in, they can hit the ground running, and they're not being taken for. A ride. But that's often not the case, especially when you have a million other things happening in your business. Like, this is why we love we love working with businesses that are growth minded even if they're both in early and grow stages because there's a trajectory. And that to us is quantitative and qualitative data to be able to assess how the team reacts, how the team is proactive, and how the team takes action. So it's like we're constantly, like, observing how you how you work.

0:36:23

So when you outsource it to a company like us, we come in and also your business is already busy enough as it is. Right? So when we come in, this is our full time job. This is our business. This is our expertise. We live, eat, and breathe this. We have our hands up some businesses back end at any given time. So you bring us in to do the work for you. Of course, when I say for you, we can't do it all because we're not my readers, so we're gonna have to have some team members help us with knowledge transfers and all that stuff, and also even just to, you know, practice using the systems. But then we go in, we do our job, And then this is where you can bring in somebody and be more effective with your dollars.

0:37:08

Imagine bringing in the COO. And not having any systems in place. Before the COO can actually truly be effective, they have to like bring your business up to baseline, if that makes sense. Rather than having us come in probably for a lot cheaper than what hiring a really awesome COO would be. Cressed out and play. Fix the things, do the things when the COO comes in or ops manager, ops coordinator, doesn't matter, they can get to work right away and begin to show you what having an op a good ops person on your team looks like. Does that make sense? I feel like I realized about that one. Okay. No. That one was scrappy.

0:37:47

And I think it's it's important to really have clarity around what the systems and operations person is taking over. And I think that we have a tendency structurally to not have clarity around job descriptions, which is also an operational problem. So if you're asking someone to take on an additional duty that doesn't belong to them so you can get your operations squared out. You have an operational problem. How do I assess that ops are not working when I have a smaller team where people wear a lot of hats.

0:38:54

The easiest way if you have a small team is just to ask your team members because we've been in this situation and we've seen this happen where oftentimes upper level management even if you're like in a team of five. Right? I'm not saying it has to be like fifty. What people who are dealing with the day to day of the business experience and feel can often be different than what upper management feels is going well. So the easiest thing, and this is why I believe in people first so much is literally talk to your team members. What's going well? What's not going well? What could be better? What would make this more orgasmic? And we not we say ask more orgasmic because we all know what a good orgasm feels like. Right? So it's like, what does it take to help a team member feel that type of excitement and pleasure while working in the startup fast paced environment. And it could be as something as simple as hey, there's not enough of a feedback loop or hey, you're asking me to do something that I can do and I'm okay at it, but it takes me twenty hours to do, and I'm sure somebody could get this done in, like, a quarter of the time.

0:40:08

So when taking action whether it's internally for yourself or for team members or for customers doesn't feel streamlined mind or feel full of ease and alignment, it means that your operations are not in alignment with how you want the business or how you envision the business to operate and run. It's like you're constantly running uphill. So this gets into, I think, probably one of my favorite areas of operation. And that is the review portion. Right? The assessment process? The reflection? How were you post morteming?

0:40:57

And I think the thing that I have learned here is that people do not do this enough. Ever. How do you recommend that people go about getting this information from their employees? From their clients, from their customers. Yeah. And it's sometimes just an awareness shift. Right? Like, you don't Like, you don't operate in a silo. There are other living, breathing, emotional human beings here as well. We're not robots. So it could be something that's like, hey, team. Like, I want I wanna make sure that we're all in this together.

0:41:36

And sometimes, we're not always on the same page because things are happening so fast. Like, I just like to I would just like to talk to each of you for, like, fifteen, twenty minutes. Like, when we interview team members, yes, we know what we're doing and what we're looking for. It takes about fifteen, twenty minutes. So you're asking literally, like, three questions as the the tech world knows really well. It's called a retrospective. What's going well? What's not going well? How can things be better? And you can even ask a bonus question. What's one thing that we're going to do differently so that the next time we meet again? I'm just asking one thing. This retrospective will be a lot better.

0:42:08

And we have retrospectives. Like, we have formal retrospectives. When I say formal at business late Barrett, it's like, we always have the retrospective right at the beginning of planning the next quarter. Because then we can Quarterly, you talk to your team quarterly. I'm sorry. I I I'm I'm yelling about this because I don't I seriously don't think anyone is doing this. Enough. But that's a full retrospective where we're the three of us right now are just okay. What's all going well? What's not going well? Like, we're really get deep diving deeper. But then, like, brand new models. How often do you do that in formally in the Slack all the time. Like, we have, like, in our Slack channel, a workier strength section channel so that we can put down what our strengths are oh, I love researching things about grants versus I love researching things about new software, or I'm not good at building something from nothing. So if you could spend a little bit more time giving me some context. But once the first context is given, I can do that next thing.

0:43:18

So it's like, I am literally asking my team members, like, even, like, offhanded, like, hey, anything could anything be better? How might it be better? How might this exercise be better for you next time? Or what's not going well? Like, it's just like part of daily conversation. Weekly conversation. And if they I'm just like, how can I be more supportive? What's sucking right now? They're like, oh, well, this is this thing is a minor thing, but it's not a big deal. Then we're like and then our team member will be like, oh, well, actually, if you just change this one thing, it makes things that that makes that problem go away. So it's like we're constantly asking, how might this be more pleasurable. How can this be better all the time? Because then it influences how you actually take action. Your operations. And I can tell you exactly why people don't ask that question because they don't actually wanna hear the answer. They don't actually wanna implement on that information. And I think that's human right nature. I also think it's inherent to operational problems.

0:44:33

So when you come in and structure in post mortems. How often do you recommend that business is start doing them if they've never done them before? All the time. Like, every like, often are you talking to your team? Oh, we have, like, four hour leadership meetings every day. They're working. She's not much surprised. I'm sorry. I feel bad. I I don't even know what the company is. I don't wanna work there. But all I but and I'm like, can you have all these paintings? But, like, And then I'm thinking, if you're having to have four hour meetings every day, are you actually communicating or are you talking? And is this time well spent? So when I talk about actually communicating with your team, it's not just setting up Slack. It's literally getting information across.

0:45:31

In the most clear, clear, succinct I always wanna say concise, but I am not a concise person. And my team members know this about me. So and they're fine. They're, like, where should we hold the space for you to just ramble and we know what we're listening for because I'm like a verbal processor. But it's like, hey, let's just start with once a month, and this has to be documented because if it's not documented, like you said earlier, it cannot be measured, and it cannot be improved upon, and then it goes into like they said, she said kind of a situation. So if it's too much of a big deal to talk to your team members, which just shouldn't be, start with a quarter. Or maybe once a month. And then encourage them in this culture of yours.

0:46:17

So now your defining operations redefines and defines company culture. Where you're coming into this place where people are not afraid to speak up. And even if nothing can be done about it because maybe you are at capacity or don't know the answer, the fact that you're being heard that speaks volumes and that's not treasured enough. And so this is why We talk about being people first so much is because when you treat people like people, even just holding that space for them to breast, something that's bugging them, is sadly a more rare thing in the workplace than it is not. Howard Bauchner: That's a fact.

0:47:04

So I think I wanna wrap this up today with talking about the thing that systems is not. Systems is not your tech. But your tech is an essential part of this process. Right? When you're doing retrospectives, if it's in Slack, it's lost forever. Right? I mean, it'll happen but if it doesn't go someplace else after that. So I know you use Notion. I use Notion. That's one of the things that brought us together, but I don't think it has to be notion. It just has to be a system.

0:47:49

How do you assess whether or not the system itself is working? It's very easy. Are you using it? If you set this up, are the team members using it? Or did you here's, like, your they're like, oh, yeah. Like, here's an example.

0:48:05

We have so many SOPs. Like, that's one of the things we look at. It's we look at, like, how many SOPs you have, but one, are those SOPs actually being effective, utilized, referenced updated. There's no point in having an SOP if it's, like, five years old. Right? So it's, like, sure, quality matters and quantity but also again, it goes back to effectiveness. And so it's really easy to just be like, if you have a million SOPs out there, but yet you're telling me off handed that when somebody needs information, they just come ask you. It's, like, now it's, like, what the Asprior show and you're never going to be able to get out of that that pervasive loop. Right?

0:48:45

And so the easiest question you can ask is, I've set up the system. Are you using it? Is it working? Two quick questions. The answer is sometimes or no. And the sometimes is because it's quarterly thing you address, that's different. But if it's something you have to do with daily, like, onboarding new customers and you sometimes use it, that's a sign that it's not working. And yes, you're right.

0:49:13

Apps and tech, they're just the tip of your system's iceberg. But it's oftentimes the first thing that people focus on because we're visual creatures. Right? So it's like if you tip that pyramid this way, that's all you see. It's like first impressions. You don't see what's the most important stuff under it. So they're they're shiny. It's fun. That helps you visualize what you're thinking.

0:49:37

But if we don't know the right strategy, the needs and requirements, the things that we go through with our clients and our systems building process, app is never gonna be successful because when you're comporting your needs to its limitations. And it's why apps are so shiny. Right? Because it is it appears as though if I just switch systems if I just get a different app, everything will suddenly be better. Fuck, I fall into this occasionally, and I know better.

0:50:15

I mentioned before we went live, that I am looking at apps to automatically take out little short snippets from these recordings and turn them into, you know, TikToks and Reels and things. I want it I want it done automatically debit never gonna work that way. But at least you have your needs and requirements down, that's a lot more than what we can say about many people. They're just like -- Oh, sure. -- the reason why I'm on this app is because everyone said so. I was like, well, your brain doesn't work like everyone else's brain. So that's where this whole shiny object comes in. It's like, what need does this app really solve? And when you benchmark it with the need that you have of it, like, why are you paying for things that don't actually work for you? They'll probably work for other people, but it may not work for you. Again, it's also a lot easier to save money than it is to make money in operation. So we look at things and where you can save money as well.

0:51:20

And the easiest place to trim the fat to begin with is It's your emotional support text back y'all. And and I say this with love, And also, I have to go as soon as we are done here, I have to go and cancel it's called Mellon because I wanted to replace streamyard. And somebody said, Marissa, said, you should try Mellon. And I went over and I was like, this is amazing and subscribed and turns out it doesn't do what I needed to do. But I have paid for it now for three months. Because I just keep forget forgetting cancel it, and it's not huge. But again, your emotional support tech stack is what is killing you financially when you're not aware of your operational needs. There you go. So how do Like, what's a short term action that we can all take to immediately prove our operational status. Sure.

0:52:37

Some quick low hanging fruit wins immediately are What are apps you're not using? That's an easy one. That's a really easy one. What are apps that you're not using? And even if they're quarterly, so, you know, saying this with all the intention and awareness that you bring yourself, so it's not just cookie cutter. What are all the apps that you know you're not using? You know you know.

0:53:00

And Two, go have conversations with your team members. It's the easiest thing. Make it low key conversational. And this these are small things, but it begins to clean up and give you information. Right? You cannot create great operations without information and data. So talk to your people.

0:53:24

This then gives you a list. Keep it like, if you truly wanna change, like, begin this list of what if people said that are not going well? And I even ask my team questions, what am I not doing well? Not what the business isn't doing well, but what am I as the CEO, the leader? And I'm like bracing myself. Right? Because, you know, it's hard to hear as well, but it's like constructive criticism and feedback. Only helps me do better. So when I say, like, when am I not doing well? They actually said, Veronica, you need to stop worrying about crying to us.

0:53:57

When I say crime, I'm just like freaking out. Like, I have freak out moments. And then, like, as a Boston leader, this doesn't look good. It's not a good look, but they're actually like But the fact that you are so comfortable and you trust us, it's like we will hold that space for you because after you do your freak out session, you always ask, okay, how do we solve this problem? So they're just like stopping so hard on yourself. And I'm just like, Oh, that was not the feedback I was expecting to get, but okay, I will take it. And so now I'm just like, I'm about to freak out, but then they all know after I freak out things are we will switch to action mode.

0:54:34

And I think that is quite possibly the most important lesson you can take away from this. It almost always y'all is not the feedback that you thought you were going to be getting. When you ask your team what's not working for you, they are not gonna give you the answer that you were expecting. And I think that's important because we spend a lot of time making things up in our heads especially when you are neurodivergent about the conversations that you are going to be having with someone And that doesn't actually turn out to be the conversation. And this is a really dangerous practice to get into when your operations and your business depends on honesty and clarity about what's actually going on. Yeah.

0:55:36

And speaking of neurodiversity, it's like, we have worked with so many different personalities and needs. Like someone mentioned that they have bipolar episodes, for instance, And as the CEO, we needed to prepare for uncertainty for moments of uncertainty when they needed to go away for personal reasons. Right? So it's like if you are working with clients, if you're working with customers, It's like how do you how do you make certain moments of uncertainty don't affect anybody. Right? So it's like, our mental health and our lives are emotional well-being. It's very real. And to not take this, again, it goes back to the people first and pleasure fill a part to not take this into account, means that we're not treating people and not bringing the injecting the humanity back into operations. And I think that's ultimately what we're trying to do here is to create like a better work environment for people honoring who they are as their whole selves so that we can create happiness excitement. And when people are excited and delighted, you can change the world so much more effectively that way.

0:56:50

This has been so much fun. So in the next episode, we are going to be talking about how you ask these questions. And if you thought we talked a lot about asking questions. Just wait until we get into the how and the what and the wherefors. Like, when we say people first, she means it. So we're gonna dive deep into how you actually get into dynamically changing things structurally when you are talking to people about that.

0:57:31

I love internal ops. Like, this is the next episode is about internal ops, so it's gonna be great. It's going to be amazing. Y'all, thank you so much for being here today. This was ops on top. I'm so in love with this title. Thank you, Marissa. And this has been the nerd diversity media network dot com y'all.

0:57:54

Veronica, where can they find you? Absolutely. They can find me at w w w dot business laid bare dot com. You can also find me on LinkedIn just search my name. I can drop those links for you like we we do own podcasts and make it easy. And if you want, I do have an opt in. You can literally get my fifty plus SOP ideas guide so that you don't have to start from scratch and will give you ideas from different areas of business that you can begin creating standard operating procedures around.

0:58:26

And if you're like, oh, well, there's nothing standard about this idea that Veronica our team gave. It's a hit for you to begin having that conversation with us or with your team members. We're here to have Just have that conversation. If you really think I can't standardize this procedure, then you have an operations problem. We're all about pleasure points, like pain points, sure, but we use that to create pleasure points at the end of the day. So that's the that's where we come from when it comes to operations.

0:58:58

I'll never shame you unless you really ask for it, but most people don't. Most people don't. No. Some people. Okay, y'all. If this has been meaningful to you, please do come to the neurodiversity media network dot com and subscribe. We have some lovely benefits for paid subscribers, including a couple of private podcasts with me, It's amazing because I know everyone's not sick listening to me yet. It's it's it's it's fantastic. Alright. We will be back in two weeks. We will be talking about people. And we will see you all then. Thank you so much for being here. You have a great day.