0:00:00
I think I definitely wanna focus on the we're live. We're live. We're live. We're live. I'm, like, I don't know. Prare's just, like, Well, I'm just No. No. I wanna no. I wanna just put the button before you plot the whole thing out and prerecord. This thing. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Neurodiversity Media Network. This is on learning how to ask for help.
0:00:31
If you saw my workshop with Marissa last week, we talked about creating communities, and now we're gonna spend the next, oh, probably a while Marissa and I will have lots to say on this one for for many weeks about How you use those relationships? How do you have conversations with people when you need things? What does it look like to have boundaries to have structures, to be able to say, no, that doesn't work for me. Boundaries are something you can ask for but how do you enforce them next? Like, this is this is a big hard thing and especially you are neurodiversion, especially if you are autistic, which we both are, it's important for you to have some kind of roadmap sometimes for these conversations. And we don't want you to feel like you're out there in the dark doing this alone. So today, we're gonna talk about how to do it at work because it's important. How do you have hard conversations with people? How do you hold space for their needs and while also asserting your needs. Yeah. And we're definitely gonna get into this. So Let's do it.
0:01:54
And I wanna preface this by, like, when I gave the topic to Briar, Briar was like, no. And are you sure this is the talk I'm learning. And I'm like, yeah. Because I think I wanna give some basis of where this came from. So we're in the catalyst. It's like it's a it's a workroom. It's a it's a vast workroom, a virtual workroom where you come in and you sit down. And a lot of people have challenges there when they first join us, because there are so many rules and so many expectations about what help looks like, how much help you're allowed to have, how much a lot help you're allowed to ask for. What what's the the the rule in the face, but give more than you take, and I'm like, Why? What if I need more? And I don't have anything to give at this moment in time? Like, what if I'm so depleted? I just need to take then I have to rack my brain with the guilt of taking more support when I'm unable to give support.
0:02:50
And you mentioned boundaries Boundaries are an active conversation. I might say to you this is what I need in order to be good and you say, I can't do that. And that's okay. It's not a personal attack on your boundaries. It's not someone saying your boundaries are horrible or they're far reaching. It's just like I can't do it. See you. You know? And that's I think I wanna explore that as we as we go through these conversations what that looks like.
0:03:17
And I'm excited for people to, you know, post comments and talk about it. I want this to be like an active conversation we're having about is it easy to ask for help? Is it easy to give help? You know, all of these kind of things and how much we're allowed and how and how do we do it? So you were talking about work in in the business side of things.
0:03:38
As business owners so I went through down memory Elaine today because I was trying to find some content that I end up creating, I guess, in twenty sixteen. And I was looking at this breadth of content that I had in twenty sixteen about help and getting support and all of this kind of stuff. And I was like, holy moly. Like, this is I I would be talking about this in my brain and in my courses and in my, like, staff for so long, And I still don't have the answer. So I'm like, okay.
0:04:11
This is the year we start to actually, like, break down what this looks like. So in our business, How much help are we allowed to have? So prior, how much help are you allowed to to have in your business? I mean, I feel like that's really the crux of it. Right? Who says what I am allowed to have? Who says what I'm allowed? Right. You can't take that. Yeah. That's for me, that's the answer. Because I will ask for as much help as I can pay for? Sure. Yeah.
0:04:46
And then there's like the kind of help that we can't we basically say, I can't I can't pay you right now, but can we barter? Can we exchange services? Can we can I get a sweat equity contract? Can I get and we don't talk about sweat equity tracks enough? I love them actually. I'm very passionate about them and having a proper contract in place. Like, an actual sign contract. Contract. No. I'm just Let's hang up. Let's hang up a buzz. Yeah. No. No. I mean contract contract. What are the so somebody's asked, what are they?
0:05:19
So sweat equity contract is, like, where, basically so for example, say, Briar and I are putting together a core and it's gonna be sold under my platform. We then we both are putting it because we don't have money to pay ourselves and yet because we haven't sold it. We basically are putting ourselves both under a sweat equity contract even though it's my company because I pay myself for the development. Right? So it's it's and sometimes when you're all alone in your business, creating yourself a sweat equity contract, and tracking your sweat equity dollars helps you to pay out yourself in the future. Yeah. There's actually tax benefits there. There's actually because when you're first starting out a business, you're putting all in all of this work. It's unpaid work. That is a value. That is actually shareholder, like, that is actually money in your business. You can capture that as a as an invoice of owing into the business. Then when your business is profitable, you could actually pay yourself back in in these. And so and the same thing with the sweat equity.
0:06:18
Briar, I would say, Briar, when we sell this course, we are then both getting paid this much. We have sweat equity contracts in place. So if I went off and I sold it and didn't give prior, you know, prior share, Bryer's got a contract. Brier can come at me. Right? And so, yeah, I actually yep. Hips the turn yeah. I really love it. I have I've always had a sweat equity contract for my own self. So it's like, I am putting an x number of hours. Therefore, when this reaches this amount I will pay myself out. It's really used a lot in startups.
0:06:53
Any kind of development, people come on to teams, bands, Music bands have it. You're you're gonna play on this album. And when we're gonna sell it, you'll get paid. Well, that's those are sweat equity. So it's your paid for the work that you're putting in, but you'll pay be paid afterwards or you'll be paid in shares or you'll be paid like, there's a variety of ways that you'd be paid. So we could call that forever.
0:07:14
But what I wanna talk about is, like, having those conversations. Because sometimes you have to say to someone, listen, I don't have the money in the business right now. Do you wanna come on as set sweat equity? Now it's a risk. I can say no. Let's be very clear about that. But how will you know unless you ask, you have to have these conversations. I am and I just posted about this.
0:07:42
I'm increasingly frustrated with people's inability to have a conversation before it all plays out in your head. Yeah. There needs to be some willingness to say the hard thing before we jump all the way to the end and, you know, get litigious or demand refund. Or ruin a relationship. Ruin a relationship. Ship. We're burning bridges here.
0:08:16
I've told you I think before my my one rule for being friends with me is that if I say something stupid or out of pocket, you you tell me right away. Because, one, as soon as you walk away from that conversation, your brain starts to fill in the cracks, and I become, like, my villain origin story starts to develop. And, really, I was probably just having a conversation with someone else in my head, and I accidentally let slip out and it sounded somewhat relevant to you at that time. But I was actually creating, like, some sort of other story line in my because that's what I do. I like things happening all the time. It's not that I'm not paying attention to you. It's just sometimes my brain is also working on some other things while we're having that conversation. Then something or I'm completely distracted, and I and I own that, and I missed what you were saying, and I said something completely out of pocket. Well, I would rather ask I'd rather be go Oh, did I say that? Holy crap. This is this is likely what I meant or, like, I might not even remember I said it. Like, and that just happens? But then the longer you go, you've created that, you filled it in.
0:09:17
So, you know, you've had experiences with clients where, like, they think that you're off you know, like, you're doing one thing. They create instead of asking you, what is happening? What's going on? How's my project going? When's the stuff happening? They're just like, I haven't heard from you. And I've had this too. I wanna refund. You know, I've I've had people I was telling you earlier.
0:09:39
I was I'm a marriage commissioner. I married people. I had some people who I met with them in February on a Monday. They'd email me on Tuesday asking me some questions. Wednesday, they fired me. Their wedding was in October. And I was like, I had to reply back. They were like, you're the worst. And I was like, I actually have six weddings this week. And while I wanna like, I I wanna celebrate that your wedding is so important to you, at this moment, it's not as important to me as it is to you. Right. The week of your wedding, I'm all yours. This week, I'm somebody else's. Six somebody else's. Yeah. Right.
0:10:20
Like, I build in a lot of runway, in my contracts, in my relationships, even courses, Like, I'm running a program still a little bit of spillover from the January. Right? People can continue to come. If there were okay. There were two people who signed up and didn't even make it into the court platform, which as Marissa and I both know, this happens. Right? This is a reality of online courses people will sign up they will want to be there, they will never come. However, if those people at some point in time came back to me and said, hey, I'd really like to be able to do this now, I will likely work something out with them to make myself available in some way even if they haven't gotten their part to me. Right? Yeah. Like, there are really ways to flex and have some grace for each other. And that's what this is about. It's about having grace for people in an industry where nothing is urgent. Nothing. Yeah. I mean, I I've had people join the catalyst and then, like, six months later, they're like, oh my god.
0:11:36
I haven't even used this. I'm like, I'll just suggest your start date. Like, you haven't used any of the services. No problem. I'll just suggest your start date. And this will be your new billing date after your year. And they're like, wait what? I'm like Life happens. I will be tomorrow. To accommodate that for you. But in return, you must accommodate that for me in five to seven business days with any kind of deliverables, and it may be longer. And if it's longer, I'll keep you posted. Right? But I need you to be in that relationship with me. Yeah.
0:12:10
I mean, one of the catalyst members hired somebody to do their website And it was, like, six weeks before they could even start talking about it. Never mind putting it in. And so, like, those are, I mean, those are great communication things. And, of course, every business on should make sure that they are communicating, and I'm horrible at communicating. So I'll be the first to say, oh, I'm horrible at it. So I'm not gonna be, like, set set up here and be, like, I'm so good at because I'm not. And I will recognize that. But those are things where I recognize if somebody comes back to me and says, well, you didn't tell me about it. I'll be like, you're right, I didn't. And here's what I'll do. But The whole idea of asking for help is scary for people because they can't they don't know either one.
0:12:46
They're not a lot. They're they haven't given themselves permission to be supported. Two, they don't know how to actually be supported, like, in a in a way, and I I can give an example of me hiring a social media team. To help me do social media, and it's not anything what I actually need. So now I've just wasted their time and my money because I can't Like, they they they can't I nothing's happening because I'm the I'm the throttle point. And, you know, it took me, like, two months paying them to figure out I'm not their best client. Right. They're not my best provider, and it has no fault of their own. It's just not what I need for my brain. Does that mean I don't deserve to be supported? No. No. It just means you have to figure something else out that will be supportive.
0:13:36
And I remember so when we talked about this, it was a Trello board. Right? Mhmm. That they wanted you to input stuff into Trello and I agree. Like, that's my worst nightmare. But somebody out there lives in Trello already, needs social media help, and this firm is exactly the right support structure for them. And I said that I would be happy to now that I know how they work. Fully, I am happy to recommend them because they are responsive. They're great to work with, like, they're lovely people, but they're just not lovely for me. Yeah.
0:14:11
One of those challenges was, like, you had to go into Trello and it's, like, your focus for the day? And I'm like, oh, sweet mother of pearl. If I knew it was every day, I would just go in and put it in a social media scheduler. Like, that's That's that's actually my problem. You know? So now I need to find someone who can actually just sort of be my second brain and can go in. And grab that. So that's like, okay.
0:14:33
Sometimes you have to get bad. And I wanna say bad sport has nothing to do with them, but it's like bad for you support. Before you actually know how you can be helped. And it can be a costly mistake. We see a lot of business owners. They will think they need to get help before they're ready to be helped. And so knowing how to also know when's a good time for you to be helped and when's not a good time for you to be helped, I think is essential to this conversation we're gonna be having over the next few weeks because I can't ask for help. Oh, I got a good story. So I had a client one time.
0:15:06
We do have values exercise where it's basically like you go through and you figure out, like, your core values because it helps. Like, if we're gonna do anything in your business, if it's not aligned to your values, it's not ever gonna go out very well. Right? So we were doing this exercise, and integrity was one of their core values that they identified at the beginning. And as we were going through this exercise, this exercise is a really good way of showing what your actual values are even though you think your love is joy and happiness and cleanliness. No, it's not. It's it's something cumulative.
0:15:35
Anyways, as we're going through this, I was like, I don't I don't know if integrity is actually your core value. And she was like, you know what? You're right. I think it's actually being supported. So what was happening is because she wasn't actually communicating her needs to somebody of how she needs to be supported, whether it was a loved one, whether it was somebody in her business, they could that not then give back the support she actually needed. So she would feel like they were out of integrity. Right? This person isn't giving me what I giving me what I'm wanting.
0:16:06
But once we start going through, we're like, oh, how you're communicating what you need might not be matching with how they need to hear it or what they think you're saying. So it's like we actually talked about building contracts. We, you know, a virtual a verbal contract. Prior, you need me to show up at one o'clock. I need a link from you. That's a verbal that's we've now come for and you're like, yes. I will give you that link.
0:16:31
We've communicated the things that we need, biry me to be here at one, I need a link from Briar to do that. We've now connected and we met we met here and went for almost on time. And so that And listen, it's on time for us. Okay? Yeah. I was three weeks late. Being born. And I have never exactly made it a priority to be completely on time since. Forty four years. We're not starting now, folks. We're just not starting now. It's not that I don't value time. I just don't think time exists. It's a big construct, you know. But yeah. I mean, but we've communicated that.
0:17:08
And when some people like, if people communicate, it's really important for you to be here at one o'clock, I am for sure gonna be here and I'm gonna be ready at ten to, you know, because it's important to them and they've communicated that to me. If they haven't communicated that to me and I show up at one zero three and they're steaming mad at me because I'm three minutes late, I I don't know that. Not if I don't tell you. Right? I have I bear the responsibility of communicating with you about what isn't working for me before I leapfrog all the way to end and say this isn't working for me. And most people don't make those steps. They're just like, I asked for help I didn't get it. This person's unreliable. You know, table flip.
0:18:03
Meanwhile, the person's like, still waiting for your instructions. Like, it's what? You know? And that like, you know, this supposed to be I was fully I'm like, I'm horrible this. I can't even look at Slack. It just makes me it makes me wanna want it a little bit. So, like, I'm never gonna be able to be a good like, I'm I'm a horrible client for you. Like, and I'm just I'm not saying it's them. Right? You never you never put up any of my stuff. Well, that's because I didn't give them the tools and I couldn't play with the tools they had. Who's fault is it? Well, ultimately, it's mine because I didn't exactly articulate the support I need, and I didn't ask the questions properly of myself. I knew that they were gonna use Slack and Trello, but I was like, Marissa, are you going to look at Slack every day. And I I like, the little voice in my head would have been like, Mommy. Right. And knowing that changes everything. Right? Being able to be honest about your needs and what they really are.
0:19:10
And I think part of this is very much the programming of getting it wrong all of the time when you are neurodivergent and you grow up with the trauma of always doing it wrong. Needing to ask for things can be difficult. I get it. And also, how do you ask? What do you define as non negotiables? Right? Because I think that's where it starts. And sometimes you don't know until you're in the thick of it. Right.
0:19:45
And then it's just like, oops, this didn't quite work out. You know, and that's I think not being so hard on ourselves when that happens. Like, I'm just like, well, I spent two months two months worth of invoices to figure out this wasn't gonna work, but I cut I nipped it. Nip it in the bud. I said, no. This isn't gonna work, like, let's part as friends. You know, and I think that's important. In the past, I might not have done that.
0:20:08
You know, I've had people in the catalyst who have been said this isn't for me and that's gonna happen, like, you know, not everybody can show up in a work room and ask for help openly, and that's okay. Like, that's okay to know that. One of the things that we're trying to break down in there is sometimes people say, don't know, do I just come in the work room and ask for help? Yeah. What's the rules around it? There are no rules. Turn on your mic, turn on the mic. There are no rules. Yeah. That's right. We'll just just ask your question and be open that somebody else other than me might respond because they're actually better at it than me. Those are probably it.
0:20:46
One of the things I said, you know, one person was like, I'm just worried about talking over other people. Like, it's okay. We're all really neurodivergent, so we're all probably just gonna talk over each other. And the few folks who aren't as neurodivergent as the rest of us, they just have gotten used to us. I said, and if all else fails, if you're really if someone does say something, just say, oh, sorry, Internet lag. Oh, sorry. Internet lag. I didn't mean to talk over you. Learn where to where the off button is on Zoom. Calls so that you can fain a disconnect. Yeah. These are the things that you should know. Whoops. WiFi disconnected. I mean, come on people. Like, we just It doesn't matter as much as I think that people put a lot into it, but that's a lot of years of trauma.
0:21:32
We don't have no idea. You said something about me, neurodivergent and you know, doing it wrong. I think is that I'm gonna ask you this. I think I know the answer for myself, but I'm curious for yourself. So do do you maybe do things then for yourself more because you have you either think you're doing it wrong or you are worried you're gonna explain it to somebody wrong. That's a good question. I think for me, it's that I'm going to explain it wrong or not enough times or not in the way that is going to impart the information that is required.
0:22:13
I am what a weird trauma points I remember a doctor Phil episode from my childhood. We're not doctor Phil Trauma. Right. Like, that man owes me money for a lot of therapy. Where he was talking about and and and the reason I remember this is that my parents specifically recorded it and played it for me, like, to to talk about and and it was lying by omission. Oh. That if and and here was doctor Phil's example.
0:22:54
All these years later, I still remember this, that if somebody asks you to go out to the car and get the folder and the car's on fire, and you come back and say, oh, well, I just didn't see it. And like, Marissa, that's my life right there. It wasn't there. I I mean, the car is gone. So ours are gone. Is gone. All yours gone. Too, Ryan. Like, that makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. But lying by omission has been a piece of trauma that stuck with me for, yes, forty two years now.
0:23:40
Like, man, I I don't wanna I don't ever want you to feel like I haven't given you all of the information, which leads to often we're over explaining things multiple times. And even then, sometimes, I as in a case we've been talking about, don't always get it right. Like, oh, I need to overexplain it here too. And here. And here and and highlight here and sign here and put your initial here. I mean, that's why they have those in those contracts. Right? Like, you put your initial. You didn't read it, but you know what? They'll say that you read it because you put your initial beside it, so you probably should read what you're agreeing to. I mean, that's a thing too. It's like it's like how many places can we put this stuff. I I mean, I don't know how many places I put, like, there are no refunds. And people are like, well, why? I'm like, because Because the actual act of you coming into the catalyst for example, there was a men work we set up stuff for you.
0:24:44
We created stuff. We had anticipation. We left room for you. We created things for you to do and to to take part in. Some of it very personal and so it takes its labor intensive. But two, is that you got a year to use it. Give yourself that space. Even if it takes you four or five months, I promise you in a week we can we'll we'll use the cost of it in a day sometimes. Right? Like, we can really go we can really be supportive in many different ways in the catalyst. It's like you didn't use it for three months. No problem. I'm just gonna extend out your time. Because that's I'm gonna capture that, but there's no refunds.
0:25:27
You bought this for a reason, come in here and learn how to ask for help. And you know, some people were like, oh, this isn't, you know, this isn't for me. And I get, like, there's just like, if it's really causing them a lot of stress, fine. That I see a lot of times is just this hesitancy or this inability to be even like how do I ask for help in the space? And we're creating, like, out of thirty email onboarding sequence that they'll get over the first three months because we know this. And I wanna recognize it, and I wanna name it.
0:25:57
If you're not showing up in the work room at least once or twice a week, you know, what's in and you're not on vacation or you're not in the middle of a launch. But even if you're in the middle of a launch, having used it. It's it's one thing, but it doesn't negate the work that went into the creation of those assets. Yeah. And you like, I want to address why people might not come in. Right? It isn't because they're too busy. It isn't because they're because, like, honestly, sometimes people come in there just to just to send out emails. It's that personal accountability. They're not even getting, like, we're not building them a business plan or a marketing plan.
0:26:37
Some people have joined just to make sure that twenty minutes a day at Pomodoro clock, a twenty five minute Pomodoro clock, they got something done. So often that's what it is for me. And I run a similar program. So, like, we have developed I have said, how do we develop your similar idea so that it not only works better for your people and you, because that's that's the reality. Right? Mhmm. Yep. And it's so it's, like, knowing how to ask for help. It's knowing what help you need, not shaming yourself for needing not needing more help, not shaming yourself for needing more help. You know, we have several members where I will send them personal messages and just say, hello, I would like to help you. You know, I explained recently to a member that when I can help people, when people come in and ask me questions, I'm in my element. They're giving me This is a reciprocal relationship. I know you were talking earlier in the week, Talosville reciprocal relationships.
0:27:44
We talk about this a lot. It's not just them giving me money to be in my community. When they come in and they're an active participant and they're asking me questions, even if it's every day, four hours a day, I am like, because Because when you stop. Right. And then you get to take those conversations, those things that you've created, those means you've made, or templates you've built right You get to take all of those things and turn them into different assets for other people later. So it's never a waste of your time. And you still have to be there. I still have to be but yeah. I mean, like, we've talked to this.
0:28:31
I've got the best job ever because I totally napped during the day while I'm in the workrooms. But, you know, like, this is the best. Like, people always like, I don't wanna bother you. I'm like, what are you talking about? This is your time. This is the this is the moderated co working time. I'm here for you. I am not here to do my own work. I sometimes do my own work if nobody needs active support.
0:28:51
I'll say it's active support. I think there's, like, passive and and active. Like, that body doubling is is not necessarily active support because you're both doing two different things at the same time. So people might not need active support, but I'm in there, so I might be able to work on my own staff. But for the most part, I said, think BBA was listening.
0:29:10
I think I told BBA, BBA, like, what can you do when we're not asking you questions? Jasmine was, like, couple months ago. And I was, like, She's like, what's that? I'm like, just stare off into this and some think about unicorns or, like, think about, like, narwhals or think about, like, a trip. I mean, honestly. And then if, like, you know, someone asked me a question. I'm, like, I'm back in. Right? Like, it's, like, this is the most beautiful thing that could possibly happen, and we have people who are afraid of bothering me. Afraid of asking too much help. Afraid of taking too much support. And I'm like, take what you need.
0:29:48
And I feel like this is so important is the idea that you get to decide what space you're available, what help you're available to offer. I'm not calling you if I need help moving furniture. I mean, I could. I'm extremely strong. And I lift a lot of stuff. Like, you've just I I'm an event planner. We literally so so I'm I'm just telling, also, so much stuff can fit in my car. Like, I have like, Locals. Marie is available to help you move. I don't even need pizza. It's just Wow. I got I got you. But I see what you're saying. Like, you know what? I know you're never gonna ask me for.
0:30:42
Singing lesson. Like, first of all, I I'm toned. Like, I cannot. I'm like, what what is that? People were like, I was in piano and organ lessons for years and my poor mother Like, I was just like, I eventually started playing by memorization because I was like, oh, they're the adults are disappointed at me. I'm gonna memorize what this sounds like. I have no idea what note. People that my teacher would put the note sheet in front of me and I'd be like, still don't. So you that's what you're not gonna ask me for. Absolutely. Don't. Okay. We won't promise Yeah. Yeah. But it's knowing what, you know, who to go to. It isn't having this network. We talked about this, I think, a couple days ago. Last week. It's like having that network of support like, the multiple layers of support. Having because it's okay if someone can't help you.
0:31:38
RSD, was it rejection sensitive Dysportia, is gotta be worse than almost anything I have ever seen in the world when it comes to building community. Like the most it's a it's a serious thing that we have to look at because I might say to you, I can't Monday. And what you hear is I can't ever you're horrible person for asking. And meanwhile, I was like, meanwhile, I'm like, but Tuesday morning, I can't, you know, and the but it doesn't matter. Because you've already heard that I hate you and your pot roast is bad. Right? And it's like, I can't No, Marissa. My pot roast is amazing. You're like, it's juicy. Thank you. You know?
0:32:28
But, like, like, that's I can't control that I, you know, that I wasn't available that Monday, but to but meanwhile, I'm like, how about Tuesday? You know? And it's like, but I can't I can't I can't fight against the only thing I can keep saying is, you know, how can I help? I would love to how can I help? What what help can I do today? What can I do for you today? You know, and keep saying that and be like, I just love helping you. Like, I just love it. I just, like, try to tell you what I'm like, just love it when I can help you and you were able to do this thing and we got to do this together and it was the best that that's all I can do sometimes to combat that voice inside their head that said, oh my god, they can't help me Monday. I can't ever ask for help again.
0:33:12
You know, and the the other side of that as the person who is regularly offering help, sometimes I feel like the weirdest stalker y'all. As I'm sliding up into your inboxes, as I recognize that I could help you. Please, god. Just let me help you. Please. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's the reality, I think, and when we're in, like, these kind of positions where we do have the capacity to help others, it's probably one of the greatest things I think we can do is to keep offering to help even when they are not ready to get support or they don't need us, like, just so that they know my mom when I was a teenager, she, like, wrote she had, like, one of those, like, big, huge cell phones, you know, like, the the bricks.
0:34:06
And she made sure all of my friends had the number to that cell phone and our home phone number. And she was like, I want you to know that if you are anywhere, and you need a ride. You are not getting in a car, like, with a stranger or with somebody who has, like, had anything to drink, you call me. We don't have to tell your parents, you all I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pick up. You're gonna hop in the car and we're gonna get you home. And I always like love that and we had those we had a few of those situations.
0:34:35
I was sometimes in bed, you know, and my friend I all the phone rings and my mom's like, sweetie, you know, like, she's like, and, you know, the whole the whole middle of the night call, and then she'd she'd be like, hey, I'm gonna go pick up. Do you wanna come with? And I'd be like, yeah. Okay. Throw on some shoes and we'd go pick them up for no questions asked. Right?
0:34:53
But then the next time we had a party, there's a party. My mom dropped us off and she's like, this party looks like it is off the hook. Like, is out of control already. She's like, you call me if you need me to come be like a bouncer. I will I will kick these kids out. And I was like, Thanks, mom.
0:35:09
My friends were all like, we will call you because they already knew. They knew that my mom was gonna be able to come help and not do the whole mom judgment. She was just gonna come in and say, okay, guys. Let's clean up the party. Let's get this together. Like, you guys are being too loud. Let's like, she would just do it and not be, like, you know, and then not you know, and like if you need like, she always said to my one friend, she's like, listen, there's a burn hole in a carpet over here. We're gonna have to talk to your mom tomorrow I'm here. If you need me to come over, I can help cut a patch of carpet, we can fix this. And, like, you know, like, that that's the best thing. They might not have called my mom talked to their mom the next day, but it was like that nice to know that they had a backup if they need it.
0:35:52
So going forward in my adulthood, I thought, oh, I always wanna be that cell phone just in case they need that ride in the middle of the night or they just need someone to come help move or they just need to set up an email funnel. Or they just need to, you know, create a marketing plan. Like, these are things that I can do really well and really quick a website. I built a website yesterday. In the in the workrooms with somebody. They were just like, I just I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. I'm like and and that's that's exactly it.
0:36:26
It's about knowing what help that you can provide. Being aware of who needs that help. And I think y'all, this is a sales lesson here too. Because if they haven't purchased, offering your help to someone isn't an immediately automatic bad thing. Right? I offer to help people who haven't paid me money all the time. Maybe they will pay me money. But really it's about the ask. I would like to help you. Please let me help you. Yeah.
0:37:04
That's one of the reasons why we have always had pay it backwards, payment plans in place. They're not for everybody, but they are basic you come in and you don't pay anything upfront. And you when you have funds in your business, then you pay your fee backwards. We started doing that when we were organizing our shows, our our pop up shows for makers. People would come to me like, I wanna be on the show, but I don't have the table fees and I'm like, no problem. Pay me after the the show because you'll have your table fees and more. And then we work with them to make sure that not only would they have the table fees, but they got enough to pay their rent. Right? Because it's not enough just to just to pay the the table fees. And if people came to me and I saw them working hard and, like, selling, they're not just sitting reading a book. And they said, you know, I still don't have enough to pay no problem. No problem. Pay me at the next show.
0:37:57
And I have had people who came back well, we we saw people came back, you know, months later and said, here's my table fee. Also, I'm doubling it because I want you to be able to do this for someone else. Right? And we've had pay it backwards. I had client who paid a very, very sizable amount plus. It was her fees plus a percentage of the money that they made in their business. And it's always worked back. But the idea is that we're in partnership. We're in community. Right? They're gonna work on their business because of the now here's what some people don't realize.
0:38:34
I've had people who do a pay it backwards in the catalyst and then they didn't show up. And they didn't work on their business. And guess what? When the invoice came. Were they surprised? Yep.
0:38:46
And they're like, oh, I didn't end up using this. I'm like, not my problem. You signed up, you signed a contract. I made space for you. I created this for you. It's not you agreed to this, you asked for this, you came into contract you came into a relationship with me. I did this. This is your response. Like, this is your reciprocity. You're on mute. When it comes to your business, have the contracts. Right? In personal relationships, that's not always necessary. But when it's your business, the clearer I am a about the guidelines, the easier it is for me to show up for them. And and that benefits everyone.
0:39:41
When I have said, this is how long it's going to take. And this is what it will look like when you are done. If you do not give me what I need, we cannot make that work. So it's about building in reciprocity to your relationships and to your contracts. And figuring out where your personal boundaries and limitations are. Yeah. And I mean, this isn't I'm just re Lacey says, like, I can relate to that. Please just let me help you. Like, Lacey has been trying to get me to, like, help me I mean, we've known each other for twenty two years. That's probably about that length of time.
0:40:26
And, you know, and it's interesting today we sat down and because I'm fully, like, open about my chaos. I'm fully open about the things I'm doing. Lacey's able to say this is good for me or this is not good for me so that there's no surprises. Lacey's able to say this is not in my my wheelhouse or I need to learn this or, you know, do all this kind of, like, set like, then I know that I'm not gonna put on a big project, and Lacey has absolutely no idea how to do it. I said, I'm not good at you know, I'm not good at delegating. You know, I'm also not good at, like and I I brain dump. So what did we do today? You were in the room.
0:41:06
We set up a notion repository of all the things out of my brain, I then gave her access to my entire life. So she now knows that she doesn't have to wait and on anything for me. She's just gonna go dig in my brain. Right? It's my responsibility though to make sure she has that access. It's my responsibility to keep putting it into that shared contract that we've agreed on. It's my responsibility to pay her. It's my responsibility to pay her on time. It's my responsibility to, you know, like, these kind of things we both have to show up. And she has to communicate on time lines and deadlines and all that kind of stuff it's an ongoing conversation of support.
0:41:42
And I think One of the things about RSD that shows up for people is that we play out conversations in our head that don't actually include the people that we're having. Right? And so I have predicted your response based on a number of previous factors, but probably very few of them honestly are about how you would truly respond in that situation. And so there's it's interesting because it feels like it would help to role play conversations. I'm making sure you, you know, don't miss this time. It feels like it would be helpful to walk through a conversation in your head and see what both sides would be like so you can, like, prepare your responses. But in fact, it generally works against you because you've gotten all the way to the finish line without the intervening conversational steps. Howard Bauchner: Yeah, and I I mean, I I can recommend that in some cases.
0:43:06
We had in our event planning business. Because we were going into places that were locked up for a long time or not used spaces, we had a lot of business owners or sorry, building owners say no to us because they they had no idea what a pop up was. They had no idea why we wanted this for a weekend or a week. They didn't really understand what we were trying to do. They can also write off that space off oftentimes for more money than they would make of us renting it. There's a lot of, like, what we call and so I end up making what I call the no no no document. And so it was for every know that we got, I created a yes. Okay? So in that case, it did work after but that took like two years. Right. And those were actual conversations that you had to have to get to the know before you assumed the no. And that is the difference here. Yeah. And sometimes I still assumed the no and then got a yes and I didn't didn't know what to do because I thought it was just gonna be another know. And so that's what that's the challenge too is that sometimes you can just over prepare and then f it up even though it was a yes because you're already anticipating.
0:44:17
I have a small I'll be completely open. I have a huge fear of being a burden. Probably not a big surprise where that came from. My therapist makes a lot of money from that. But the thing is is it stops me from fully asking for my needs. It stops me from being a really good friend. It stops me from having really good strong healthy relationships It it stopped me from also letting other people be in their acts of service. So what I was saying is, like, I love helping people. But now I'm blocking other people from being in their happy space because I'm like, no, you can't help me. I'll just do it myself. And and it's just because I don't want to be that person.
0:45:09
I have I'm the worst person as a if you're a designer, you wanna get a logo, you wanna do any kind of branding because I have been on the other side, and I And client feedback is sometimes the most exhausting part of your job as a service provider. It's like twelve hundred revisions. So I don't wanna be that person. I wanna be the good client that allows them to work in their element, to be creative, to build this amazing thing how they want to with very little you know, minimal super you know, like nitpicking. I built this up in my head of how I'm gonna be this amazing client I'm actually the worst. Uh-huh. The worst. Because I don't give as much input as they need to really know me. Right. You don't give them enough to be able to do the job. So I'm my ops manager is doing my logos.
0:46:08
For the NMM, and they're beautiful, and it's taking some time. And at least a significant portion of that is me because I'll be like, okay. Okay. It's fine. Okay. And we had to actually get on a call together and argue about it in person because and part of this for me is typing is hard for me. I've terrible arthritis. So I often use Talk to Text, which as Marissa knows, is not the most reliable service. And so sometimes rather than issuing a complaint, I'll be like, is this worth my time and energy to type this? Or to record this and have to go back and re edit it. And oftentimes, it is not. Which has been delayed this process because I couldn't make the words No. I don't like that yarn like that. Get rid of it. Come out of my mouth. Yeah.
0:47:21
I rarely do a refund. I rarely do a like, it could not fit me. I'll just be like, it's fine. I'll just put it in the bottom drawer. Maybe one day it'll fit. Because I just don't wanna see that look of disappointment.
0:47:35
And because I've worked again, I've worked in retail. And and not that I ever hated. I mean, refunds were only annoying when they didn't have a receipt, you know. Or they argue with you that you don't have a receipt. So I have to put on a gift card. They're like, this is an outrage. I'm like, it's an outrage that you didn't bring back your receipt. So but again, I have these, like, scenarios of my own past of, like, how much I hated being, you know, in that role. So then I tried to But I will point out here as Heather had to remind me this week, there is a huge difference between buying a product or a course and purchasing a service. So, right, we can take back products and courses that we don't -- Yeah. -- theoretically depending on the agreement. Yeah. But Service is a much different deal. And many of you are service providers. Which requires you to have very clear guidelines on what a refund looks like -- Yeah. -- what it means to offer one how you go about negotiating those things if you do at all. Yeah.
0:48:49
And I'm I'm a as a client, I often will just ghost me. They'll be like, can you give me feedback on this? I'm like, no. You've done an amazing job. And then they're like, can we wrap this up? I'm like, absolutely not. There's no need for you to keep going. Like, can I just because I know that it's not gonna you know, it's not turning out how I'd hoped? And I don't wanna make them go through twenty thousand versions to make me happy. I'll just go do it myself or find it elsewhere. Anybody listening to this? I'm sorry. It's the worst client. I'm a Visa client because I don't want I I don't wanna be a burden. You know? And I think that's where I'd like to wrap up today. K. How do we unlearn being a burden. How do we unlearn being too much or a problem, how do we go about unlearning these things that are so very much a core part of why we do not ask for help.
0:50:00
Howard Bauchner: Yeah, I've I've started establishing the safe word in in my business relationships, both of those clients. Like, so when we go into a session, I'm like, listen. Once my brain starts going, it can be if it's so if it's overwhelming or you just need to stop, like, put out the safe word. Just let me know and I will stop. And there's, like, no, like, no heart feeling, whatever. And then if you feel like you need more, like, let me know. Right? Because I will keep going. And when I'm the client, I'm trying to say, like, I say to them too, like, when I'm being a crappy client because I'm not giving you enough to do the job you want to do. Here's the word. And I will without it, I'll stop what I'm doing and I'll say what do you need.
0:50:47
But sometimes, people will send emails and they're also vague about what they need because they don't wanna make me mad. I'm paying the money. Right? But I find the safe word actually does work. Because it's just this irrelevant, like, banana. Oh, the banana has been dropped into the conversation. Like, I gotta and then I'm like, what? Oh, What do you need? Right? Whereas they might have said, you know, in the next few days, maybe we can get together and go over the deliverables. I'm like, yeah, sure in a couple days. Right? And I might even show up to that conversation. Be like, what do you need for me? And now they're intimidated or they're like, they're not sure. They don't know what questions to ask. But as soon as they're like, banana. I'm like, oh, banana. You don't have what you need.
0:51:35
To move forward in this project. What do we need to do to get back together if we can get back together? So that's my tip. It might it may or not work, but it is my no judgment. No Like, it is the I'm standing in a lot. Like, this is it. The banana has dropped. The safe horse is out there. We both have to come together and create that. And I do that even like in personal relationships too. It's just like if we're going and all of a sudden I'm like, I'm out there and I'm not providing you support, drop the safe word. You know, and I think what's he what what's made a difference for me is no longer keeping score about the transactional nature of relationships. That's probably gonna be our next talk. We should talk about transactional falling into transactional relationship because that's a big barrier to being supported.
0:52:33
There was a moment for me recently where I was having a conversation my husband. And I was like, oh, it's me this whole time. I've been blaming you for this thing. But in fact, it is me. And now I'm going to go take a call. Talk for three minutes, please. Talk amongst yourselves. It's coffee to walk. Yeah. I mean, this is a thing.
0:52:56
Is like, we we spend so much time thinking, again, I said to my client earlier, she was thinking other people were not in integrity when it really had more to do with how, you know, she was communicating. So if you can think about when you're going through your your conversations, when you can think about your relationships, you know, can you stop and say, This is my responsibility. This is their responsibility. There's actually this really great woo woo exercise that works really well for this too. Think it was, like, in Mike Dewey's whatever the Mike Dewey's touch the notes from the universe. He has like this exercise where you have a a triangle. And on the one side of the triangle, you write what your responsibility is to to getting whatever you wanna get. And on the other side of the triangle is the universe's responsibility to getting what you get. And I think it's one of the greatest things that you can do even for a relationship if it's me and prior, I can have my my responsibility on the side and and prior's responsibility on the side. And I can see where have I done everything I could do? And being honest with yourself because we're gonna be like, oh my god. I'm the most perfect person because you don't wanna have to have that conversation with your No.
0:54:09
When everybody has faults or flaws regardless of the nature of the relationship, allowing yourself to be imperfect is I think absolutely part of the equation. Yeah. Yeah. And letting yourself kinda be okay with it without judgment. We all fall down. We all miss the ball. We all, like, drop the balls all on the floor, you know, and go for the cheesecake. Like, these things happen. You know, and the less time we spend on executing ourselves, the more time we can show up for each other, I think. Yeah. I think so too.
0:54:48
And I think that is the first step. It is being nicer to yourself and recognizing that asking for help is hard, figuring out what you need to ask four is hard and you're not always gonna get it right and that's gotta be okay. And it's practice practice being supported practice asking for the support you need. Practice, you know, being in that moment where you get fully nourished. And your cup is filled. Like, I mean, if you can only do a quarter at a time, a half cup of time, whatever, but the goal is that you can walk into a situation and have a reciprocal agreement with somebody else or with a tool or whatever you're using. It's not even the person. It's just even getting the right tools in your business. Or your life to help you, you know, be better. But it's like being actually able to say, I I need this full spectrum. I need this full breadth so that I my cup is overflowing and I can then fill into others. And I think that's practice. That takes practice. And that is what we are going to do here for the next several months with Marissa as we unlearn how to ask for help.
0:56:09
This has been so much fun. I'm so excited about this show. I'm so sorry. Hunting with you. It's it's it's gonna be a good good time. Yep. So I will drop links for all of the things in comments And y'all, please join us here again this time, two weeks from now. We will be back Yeah. Probably with transactional relationships because that does feel like the next place to go here. That sounds good. Alright, my friend. Thanks everybody. Thanks y'all. We'll see you next time.
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