Unlearning How To Ask For Help w/ Marissa Loewen

0:00:00

That's been good. Sorry. Yeah. The broadcast was live. Right as I'm singing, we got the juice. Okay. I promise prior we were gonna go in today. Yes. Y'all welcome. Hello. This is the neurodiversity media network. I am Briar Harvey.

0:00:20

Today, we are talking about reciprocity, yeah, relates to asking for help and receiving help. Mhmm. Yeah. So we think reciprocity sounds great. Right? It's like, wow. We're in this, like, great relationship. I give a little bit to Briar. Briar gives a little bit to me. We have this amazing relationship.

0:00:44

Everything our boundaries are being met, but little known fact. No. I I don't say it's little known. It's known, but we like to ignore it. Like Right. And he'd be below weirdest time. Like, oh, just ignore it.

0:00:58

Is that reciprocity is one of the most used persuasion tools for manipulation. And I think at one hundred percent impacts our ability to both ask and receive help because we know underneath that it this reciprocity can impact us. Why is having a snack? A cough drop because it's allergy season and, yeah, it's been bad this year. So let's talk specifically first about what reciprocity is? Yeah. So, I mean, in the terms of, like, a really great thriving relationship, reciprocity means that there isn't an imbalance in power, an imbalance in labor. It is really about this give and take. Now, the grand scheme of reciprocity is not just like, I give you this and then you give this back to me. It can be a long term reciprocal relationship which is really interesting when we start to build the idea of community because there are times where we have people have disabilities or illnesses or fatigue and all these kind of things, these that are maligning us. They might not always be in the most productive, will say, or giving or emptying into the pot. Okay? Right. But they still have value, and they're still important to community because of the way that we build communities and the way that we build nourishing and support. So when we look at reciprocity, part of the time is that we we it's like we almost have to put a time frame on it and I don't think it should. I think I think reciprocity is a beautiful thing when we do it and we go into it and it's a agreed upon contract and it is a revisited contract. It's a contract we made in two thousand one. It's not the contract we have today. Like, it's it's something we revisit. And we share. But it gets unhealthy when we have that tally. It gets even more unhealthy when it's an in visible tally that we don't know is being tallied for us. Oh, and that's a big deal. It is a very big deal.

0:03:14

We have seen in the last few months some interesting things in our digital business community, which is a very tiny tiny community. Here's what happens. We get people who are building things, movements, ideas, businesses. And we all wanna just have this big audience really quickly and we wanna have this and so people will say to us, you know, can you talk about this? Can you share my thing? Can like, just right now, I just got a I can see it. It's a text. On there. So I'm saying, can you please just talk about my product? Your audience is really receptive and and I'm like, oh, Okay. What? And so we often will have these things coming at us in order for this, this to happen.

0:03:58

Now, what can happen in reciprocity where power imbalances happen is that people start to do these favors for us and then they call them in later. Okay? And so this is where you'll find where someone might say, well, I've shared your stuff in the past. How come you don't share my stuff? Or I've commented on your stuff in the past. How come you don't comment on my stuff. And you're like, I didn't even know this was happening. Okay? Which then makes you a bad person because you did not know or recognize that somebody was doing nice things for you. But the thing is is that a contract was not created. It was created for you. And not for your benefit. It was created in order at some point for people to call in that favor or to create the power imbalance.

0:04:44

And this is, you know, whether you recognize that we we will all and I wanna say this, we will all probably do this to somebody else. At some point in our life. So I don't want everyone to go, oh my god, those are bad people. These are good people. These are things that we might do and think on an any day basis and it doesn't make us a good person or a bad person, it's just something to consider. Okay? Have you ever felt in your life where all of a sudden you're like, well, I've done all those things for this person and they never do they unfriended me after I did something for them. We're keeping score. And were humans and programmed to do that biologically. So, inevitably, there will be relations ships where we go, oh, you haven't paid me back the way that I have done this thing for you. Mhmm. Yeah.

0:05:35

And we've seen, like, this kinda trail into other things, like, the spoons that we sometimes see are I only have five spoons left or I only have one spoon left. We're now tallying and keeping score of our own labor. And I don't know if it's the healthiest thing for us to be honest because what can have or you're like, this this task is gonna take three spoons, and this task is gonna take, like, what we're doing now is we're now doing reciprocity on our own time So that gets into a whole inner relationship that we have with ourselves. But that's where it comes from. Right? It's like, I owe this. I've got a I've got a I've got this finite amount of energy. I've got this finite amount of time. I've got this finite whatever relationship and it has it's in and out constantly. We're either filling the the water. We're taking it out. This is a lot. It's a -- Right. -- it's a lot. It feels very heavy. It feels heavy.

0:06:32

Because not only are you in you are keeping tally of your own availability, but now other people are arch keeping tallies of what they have done for you or what, you know, what that have. And you and then you're also you have another if you do recognize that people are doing things for you, you've also kept an internal tally of what they've done for you. And I would say most cases your internal tally is bigger than their tally. And unless there is a power imbalance, then their tally will be bigger than you exactly what you thought, you know, what was an equal exchange if they're looking to create a power imbalance over you. Their tally will be like, well, I did this and this and this for you and this this took up so much of my time and this you'll anybody I'm sure who's had a relationship with anyone, family, friends, will hear this echoing in their mind. This well, I've done this for you. Why are you not willing to do this for me now? And it's a power imbalance. Right. And We haven't even talked about how that gets cultivated for sales purposes or money exchanges because it's it's a lot of layers.

0:07:51

Yes. So what does healthy reciprocity look look like? It can look like you we're we're doing this. And you're helping me and I'm helping you. This is actually a really great reciprocity because work I'm contributing to Briar's network. I'm I'm bringing it I'm bringing my audience by bringing my people to interact. We're getting some numbers for Briar to be able to go out to sponsors and to future show organizers. And you're giving me the opportunity to create little clips that I can an exposure to your network as well. For what I do in the world, but also I can then take the video and I can start putting this on, you know, YouTube. For its content, I didn't have to create created it once, but I also then have more legitimacy because you were willing to interview me.

0:08:48

So when anybody asks you be on their network or their audience, that that kinda tallies up a little social cred score. Remember it's cred? It was like this website where you could, like, get your your your Internet worth. Oh. K r e d. I it's probably still around. I should go Probably still around.

0:09:05

And and there was another one too. You got your Internet score. I can't remember what that one was. Yeah. I mean, credit was that. It was like an Internet score. It was like basically, like, however many times people mentioned you on social media, how many people linked back to you? Like, there was it was fascinating. I was, like, obsessed with it for a short time in terms of And then Bieber was the most credible individual in the world at the time according to their rankings Yes. I remember. Yeah. And and but the thing is that still happening. Right? So when when you when you borrow people's audiences, you then get you borrow their credibility as well. So so those are things like where that's a healthy relationship because you and I have agreed upon the things that we're doing for each other. And we both know how that's going to be used and why it's going to be used. We come back to that conversation every time we decide to do another one of these.

0:10:02

That's a healthy reciprocity. In business, that's a business reciprocity. If you're doing it with a client, I I can't stress that, you know, how much I love contracts, and we'll tell people to to what's your contract say? Knowing full while they didn't have a contract, I just do it very innocently. Cool. Does your contract say? But, you know, contracts are a great example of healthy reciprocity. I know that some people don't like it, especially if the contract was not written in your favor. But you know, make changes to contracts.

0:10:30

If someone presents you with a contract and you don't like a clause in it, ask to change it. And if they say no, then maybe that's not going to be a healthy reciprocity. Those are things to consider. I've had people ask to me to consider clauses in my contract. I'm like, absolutely not. My lawyer will take me out. If I do this. And and then they've said, well, then, you know, I need you to do this. I'm like, no, you don't. We don't need to be in a relationship as a customer. Because I have those are my boundaries and that is healthy as well as being able to do that. If it is something that you can change, I had to have clause that I can take in and out. It's about marketing purposes. If someone's like, I do not want to be used for any kind of marketing references. No problem at all. We take that out. We make an amendment. That isn't my boundaries. That's healthy reciprocity. They paid me money. They don't owe me marketing. Okay? All the reciprocity. Okay? So those are things where it's, like, it's good to do.

0:11:29

You're gonna ask me unhealthy rest of the process. Right. I mean -- Yeah. -- sometimes, especially with you, Marissa, I wonder how much I act THEY TO BE HERE, EXCEPT FOR THE ACCASIONAL QUESTION. BUT THAT ONE IS INFACT THE NEXT QUESTION. I MEAN, I SAID THIS THIS MORNING IN THE ROOM. I'M ACTUALLY, I AM DEATH a reactor. I if you ask me right now, what do I know? I'll say absolutely nothing. But then when somebody asked me a question, I'll be like, oh, yeah, have it here. Let me unlock that little treasure trove. So, no, I need you. Absolutely, one hundred percent. Always on forever, Briar.

0:12:04

But unhealthy reciprocity is when you start to feel like it it's either you have power being lauded over you or that you didn't ask for it there was no contract, there was no agreement to it. Even if if you're like, wow, this is amazing at the time, always check-in to say if you agreed. Because this is where we find where someone says, well, I always like your stuff or I always share your stuff. How come you don't share mine? Always and never is almost never appropriate in any circumstance. But especially not in a relationship. Why? Well, I mean, what you've got it I mean, here, I'll just give an example.

0:12:44

So had somebody recently say that to me. Well, the thing is I don't agree with their content. In fact, I don't want to be associated with their content. I actually think their content's really harmful and it goes against my ethics and my values and my morals and everything, even though they have put in their their content that their ethic Like, anyone can say that. These are I'm an ethical business. Well, yeah. Everybody thinks they're an ethical business or everybody wants people to think they're an ethical even the guys calling you on your phone saying that there's a warrant out for your arrest will say that they are an ethical business even though they are trying to scam you. But if it doesn't if you don't agree with it, you shouldn't have to do that. Right? Even with the catalyst, we might do some communal marketing where it's like, oh, I just created a post, anyone wanna go comment, it is completely one hundred percent optional. It is not a requirement to be a catalyst member to always go and follow all the catalyst members on their media. And in fact, that can be a detriment to each other's brands, especially if you're not in the same like, they're you're not their audience. Okay? The follow-up is the algorithm detects what it calls pods and engagement pods are against terms of services. And if everyone is always commenting on the same post, at the same time, especially, the algorithm will know it. Yeah. We're not part of If you're running any kind of Facebook or Google ads right now, it's really interesting.

0:14:13

The amount I just set up one in the day on Facebook, and it was incredible. The amount of, like, lookalike audience. Well, if it's all my friends, no, I don't wanna run an audience to my friends. I don't wanna run an audience. I wanna run an audience. I wanna run ads to people who are gonna buy my shit. Not my friend my friends aren't buying my shit. Like, let's just be real. Okay? I wanna run it to people who are going to buy or who have bought. And so if you just stack your stuff, it's not going to be good. Okay? It's not gonna be beneficial for you. It might look good, superficially, but it's not. And you're not gonna get the engagement. You're not gonna get the excitement because people are just be like, oh, there's Reese talking about the profit plan again. Like, they're just gonna scroll on by. That's not who you want. So, yeah, so that kind of reciprocity is is dangerous.

0:14:57

That whole, like, you must do this in order to participate in our community. Those things get a little weird about it. I mean, our we have a a rule people are like, what are your rules for being in the catalyst? I'm like, I treat it like We're not cooking tuna in the community kitchen. I mean, people are like, what? I'm like, all I ask is for you to think about does this have the potential to ruin someone else's day? Your actions, how can your impact ruined someone else's day. And most people have smelled fish for three hours after somebody brought their leftover salmon, which was delightful on Sunday night. Is not delightful in the community kitchen on Monday afternoon. It just isn't. It doesn't matter how much dill butter. You're Yeah. You're muted, but I I understand you're like It's not even good in my own kitchen. No. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like that's where kind of like our our one that's our golden rule is basically like, would your words or your actions cause someone to wish that you never brought salmon to the community, like, that is it. Right? And I think that really just like, otherwise, everything else is, like, optional. What are you available for. How do you and that's how we're creating community. Right?

0:16:12

Once you start to put these rigid restrictions on people, and we saw this with Facebook This is where reciprocity is an interesting thing when we saw with those Facebook business groups. You had to give your email address. You had to go like this one post in order to get into this, you know, this kind of stuff is dangerous. Now reciprocity is used a lot in business for free opt ins. Oh, yes. Now let's talk about that.

0:16:43

So bongo people don't realize is everybody out there who has a free option is you are engaging in the persuasive act or the manipulative act of reciprocity. Is it healthy? Is it not? Well, I don't know. I mean, this is this is up for debate. And I'm I'm on the fence of it myself as a business owner. I love a good freebie. I don't love it that it causes me to think that because this person has done something for me, I then have to click the next email. I have to click and it happens. Okay?

0:17:14

Even when you're self aware, we just we're like, oh, I feel that this is so good. I I gotta go give somebody a testimonial because they did this to me for free, but I hated it. But it was for free and I want I don't want I want them to, like, this kind of stuff gets dangerous. Right? I'll give you a free coaching session if you give me a testimonial. Can a testimonial be bad? Sure. But I'm not gonna use it. Well then, you know, right? It's like, have these kind of conversations. And in many cases, given the strengths on my time, I would rather pay you money for something than give you my email address. Holy crap. And let's not forget that if I give you money, I'm probably giving you my email address to sell me marketing shit later.

0:18:05

I mean, we were talking about the the excitement of joining a bundle. There's a there's a very famous bundle out there in the digital business world that happens, I think, once a year, and everybody wants in on it, and it has certain success. However, we also know that, like, ninety percent of the emails that you get in that bundle is people's throwaway emails. It's the email they will never look at or check. It is where sometimes you'll see on email forms, it'll say your best email or sometimes I wrote, right, the email you actually check especially when you're signing up for purchases. Like, make sure that you get these notices because it's we're not gonna just send you marketing crap. We're sending you actually information about your purchase. Like, that's the thing is that and people will sign up for like, they just have a throwaway email.

0:18:55

So one of the things that we do we advise for people who are participating in these kind of bundles or or have a free opt in is immediately after they opt in. And you get your freebie, you give them another opt in or a purchase request. And at that point, you say, okay, I know this is your throwaway email, Now let's like, if you wanna keep having a relationship with me based on this and based on what you've seen and here's what I'd like to send to you, here's another opt in. And you don't mark it to the list that you got from the bundle or the summit or even your free opt in list. You quickly requalify the people on that list so that you only have active emails. And if anybody's going, what Well, I would I wanna give away a thousand emails that I just got from this bundle. Well, because but they're not worth anything.

0:19:46

If nobody opens up your emails, your email sender score goes down, and then no one's getting your emails. Yep. Even the ones who want it. Because they say, oh, you got a thousand dead emails on this list and you're sending it out every two weeks or every two days. No one's opening or clicking through your emails. We're not we're not delivering them anymore. And I see that.

0:20:05

I went into my spam filter the other day and I'm like, oh, these people need to clean out their list. I actually emailed one person because I do like them as a person and said you gotta clean out your email list. You're showing up on my spam. On a regular basis. And the reason why you're showing up on my spam on a regular basis isn't because I haven't been clicking through, it's because you got a whole bunch of other people not clicking through. Right. Right? So this is the thing that we wanna start thinking about is if we're using these tactics in our business. If we're using these tactics in our life, what are the ramifications? What's the impact? Resoprosty is a beautiful thing. When it's agreed upon and it's and it we like I said, we come back, we check the contract again, But if we're using reciprocity as a persuasive or a manipulation tool, we need to make sure we know the impact. Of it, not only on ourselves, not only on our own business, but the people that we're working with.

0:20:57

I absolutely hate the thought of somebody feeling like they owe me. And part of this is my Italian upbringing. I was we've talked about this before. Favors are not exactly something Italians like owing other Italians for some reason. Right. Could get you killed. But it is absolutely you want to amass a certain amount of favors. You always want to know a guy. Okay? And this is really like the know a guy comes from, but it's like Wait. Wait. This is This this part is in our wheelhouse because Marissa and I know all the guys between us, we know a guy. Know a guy or a gal or a them. We know the the days, the gays. We got we got somebody. We got somebody. Okay? You need somebody Ryer and I got you. Okay?

0:21:48

But I try to build these again. It's like really healthy relationships as opposed to people only something. Correct. I I dread it. And to the point where I will actually try to do things anonymously. So if all of a sudden something good happens to you and you're like, who did this? It wasn't me. You don't know anything. And I don't want to I don't want people to know that. I want them to just enjoy and have the goodness and not feel like they owe me. Because that's a lot of heaviness too. Again, your internal tally could be higher than them. I have done things for people, not to brag, but I'm just saying I've done some nice things occasionally. I'm not just, you know, the jerk all the time.

0:22:30

But then people are like, oh, I gotta get you next. Dinner is a good thing. Like, I just wanna buy you dinner. Okay. I'll get you next time. I will never go out with you again. Never. If you say that to me, Baires. Baires. Baires' cloth candies gotta took her out. I will never nothing. We go for coffee. I I buy you coffee. You're like, I'll get you next time. You will never see me again. And now now people are no. People are watching this going, oh, no. That's why. You you need me a voice b. Yeah. No. Just enjoy it. Enjoy that someone got you that day. Someone took care of you.

0:23:15

And this leads into on learning how to ask for help and receiving help. Because if we think that we always have to have reciprocity also to be supported, to get help, to be nourished, it is going to weigh on us because now we're back to spoons. Okay? Right. Now we're back to I already have had so much support from people. I can't ask them again because I haven't given back. I haven't been that person. I haven't done the reciprocity. And this is where reciprocity gets really toxic. Okay? Because we feel we are responsible for this reciprocity. Even if the other person isn't asking for us for something, we feel like we have. Do we get guilt over it?

0:24:06

And I think we definitely, the last episode, talked about receiving. And if that is a place where you struggle, please go and rewatch that, watch that, take it in receiving as hard. And what are we doing to build guardrails Are are you snorting your Coca Cola again? Yeah. I heard something else. I think you said receiving is hard. Thank you, Marissa. Always always a pleasure. What the fuck was I saying? Guardrails? Guardrails. So boundaries and guardrails. You talked about a contract and that's good.

0:24:56

But how do we build this stuff in into personal relationships? Friendships? Yeah. I mean, I think honestly, it's it's learning to drop the tally. And asking other people in our lives to drop the tally to and having an open conversation about that.

0:25:14

As friends, okay? Because I think I think we I think we worry about being accepted so much and being rejected. Like, that's coming back from when we lived in tiny little villages and and groups of people nomads roaming around the like, this whole, like, being left out of the safety of community. Being left out of the safety of the herd. And, you know, to be honest, that's a very real thing, and we're still living in it. We're still living in that horror of oh god. I broke my foot and the rest everybody has to move on and the pack of wolves is circling behind me. We're still there. And and then we we look at, like, you know, things like the witch trials. And now we're, you know okay. We just keep repeating this.

0:26:04

And in so many cases, I don't think that we are aware of when we are keeping score or separately. This happens a lot in romantic relationships in particular. And it's a thing that I notice. So I'm I'm I'm not talking about the imbalance of a relationship where one partner of often a particular gender does not carry the emotional load. That's not what I'm talking about here. In a relationship where there is generally an e equal amount of weight given to those things, often we still keep score because That's what we know. Yeah.

0:26:59

And and we see this a lot with, like, disabled and neurodivergent. Right? Like, I'm not an easy partner to have. I will be the first one. Right. I'm not an easy friend to have, to be honest. I I only have one rule and friendship, but it's hard and not everybody can do it.

0:27:13

And it is a it's it's something, again, like, it people will say, I can't believe he stays with her or I can't believe she stays with him. You know, especially if somebody was able-bodied and then has a disability at some point in the relationship. Because not only does the emotional labor the emotional load take a toll, but the physical load. Right? Now you're helping people especially going through any kind of rehabilitation. But if it's a long term or chronic illness. We see this a lot where people are they're like, I know this is just one more thing. All you hear from me is me. Asking for support. Right? And then we also again, this is where we increase the tally. We do that our partners and our friends as well. Like, I know I'm a burden. I know I'm a because you're just hoping that they say you're not. Okay? But that creates the stress. That creates the load.

0:28:13

Having somebody to have to reassure you all the time, is in with the loss of a cat. You need me to piggyback you somewhere because you sprained your ankle. No problem. I'm incredibly strong. I will I got you. Let's go. Your feet might drag on the ground because I'm really short. But I got you. But hearing you go the entire way. Oh, I'm so heavy. Oh, I'm so big. I can't believe you have I'm gonna feel it more. Okay? Make it a joy for people to help you. And I know this is hard and I don't want I'm not white I'm not white watching it, but part of it is believing in yourself that it feels good.

0:28:55

We've we've had this conversation before where literally sit in this room, in the catalyst all day, waiting for someone to say, Marissa, can you help me? I get like, what do I do? I'm like, yes. Absolutely. Truly. Nothing makes Marissa happier than ignoring her own job. To do somebody else's business for them. Absolutely nothing. I'd like to join us in the catalyst. It's briar Harvey dot com slash catalyst. Thank you very much. We'd love to have you. Absolutely. And I'm there to do that, and nothing excites me more. But people will come in and say, I feel like I've asked you something every day this week. I'm like, and it's glorious. Mhmm.

0:29:39

I put that chat widget and I have a chat with I am like, I love I have a chat widget that people could ask me a question at any point and it makes us really loud but buzzing noise my phone. It's so exciting. On her phone, on her watch, she has all of these alerts now at any time just in case somebody needs help. Yeah. And so I'm so we're we're we're we're we're we're to use it. I was, like, anytime, always whenever you need it, it was so exciting. I was in a meeting and it went off and I was, like, oh, and the person talking to me was, like, are you okay? I'm, like, yes. Somebody meets me. It's so exciting. But it's not like I, like, I I I the therapist out there and we're like, we probably should talk about your your, you know, need for being needed, but it's just fun for me.

0:30:25

My brain gets so bored looking at my same shit all the time. I want to look at other people's stuff. Okay? But as soon as they come in and they start to go, oh, I can't believe how much time I've used, guess what I do? I'm like, It doesn't And it takes longer. I've noticed that too in the cycle. When people complain about how needy they are for needing something. It takes Marie to twice as long to generate the thing. Look at the face that she's making right now. No.

0:31:01

Whereas people are coming in and, like, they're like, hey, can I get some help? And, like, yep. And we go and we do it. And that's how I'm gonna scale the catalyst is I'm gonna fill it with a whole bunch of people who feel really good about being supported. I know not everybody's gonna get there. We're gonna work on it. We're gonna practice. They're gonna realize, wow, I get work done a lot faster. Marissa can really zip up because I'm feeling my energy high.

0:31:25

I'm excited about it. Even if I hate that your website is on Squarespace, get off with Squarespace. You know, even though I hate that, I'll still help you when you're excited about it. And that's the secret of the done with you that we do with the catalyst. Right? Because here's the reciprocity in that. Done for you. To me is an imbalance in reciprocity. I owe you something. I can't do it. I can't. That project will take forever. I will procrastinate on it. It doesn't matter how much she paid her for it. Either that does not. Fifty k will not make me move faster. Uh-uh. Not at all. I will wait until the very last second and I'll get it done for you. But if you come in and you're like, I need a trench coat and I'm really like, then I'm just gonna draw your face. Y'all. It's coming later today.

0:32:23

It is quite possibly one of the most delightful images I have ever asked for. I'm so excited to use this. And all I did was ask because we were asking about it. You were excited about it. Oh, I was. Been excited about it for we we've been talking about it for a couple of weeks. Like, hey. Although, I finally found the keywords. To, like, actually get me the images I want.

0:32:50

It was contraband. I had to go for contraband. Of course she did. Anyways, it was just, like, once I did that, then I was, like, open to possibilities, and then I end up drawing and then I'm drawing briar. Anyways, so with my finger because I don't know. Because I don't have because my pencil got stuck. My my pen, the Apple pen got stuck in a chair and then and then broke. So I was drawing your face with a finger, but it was still it was exciting and it was fun. And now you've got like this like it was light.

0:33:24

We were joyful in it. Right? We were we were having fun with it and that is that's great when we can do that, when we can build these kind of really great moments where someone can help us. And that goes, like, from, you know, you need money. Enjoy that the people are able to do that.

0:33:43

You know, I don't think we've ever really talked about how much of asking for help and receiving help is about allowing people to help. Yeah. We haven't talked about the joy that comes from helping. And I think it's gonna be the next episode. Yeah. The joy of helping.

0:34:09

But I think think this is interesting because I think we put so much heaviness on being helped. We already put all those that we we we're already in a spoon deficit of being out. Like, there's all those kind of it's just like it's I'm I'm bored of it. Okay? I'm bored of us putting limitations and expectations and and oppression on on helping and being helped. And I I just I think that we can do so much more in our world when we start to chip away at these, like, fake constructs that were created out of power imbalances, that were created out of supremacy, that were created out of capitalism, in order to impress others.

0:34:56

Rich, wealthy, powerful people are helped and supported to the nines. And yes, they pay most of those people, but it it will Right. Potentially, theoretically. But they don't question whether when they walk into a building, someone will greet them and offer them refreshment or to take their luggage someplace or to get them what they need. All of these things are assumed and it becomes really personally powerful. When you start assuming that if you ask for something, someone, not necessarily the person you ask, but someone will be able to provide you that service.

0:35:55

Mhmm. Yeah. And, I mean, I'm in a service industry. I'm serving all y'all in the in the catalyst. I will one hundred percent say that that's I get so much joy out of it. Right? We don't question that because you paid me. But, like, there are people who do questions. They're like, you literally paid for this. Why are we talking about how much support you can I I'm telling you, yes, you can? Yes, you can.

0:36:18

But I mean, the the reality is is that we we have purpose. We have things to do in our day. As much as we all, like, kinda say, oh, it'd be amazing to sit around all day and just We're still gardening, we're still painting, we're still doing still stuff for other people, even as much as it is for ourselves. Okay? We're always creating both for ourselves and for others. Doesn't matter what those rules are that we take on. I do wanna eliminate all the crappy stuff that nobody wants to do.

0:36:47

But I would love for us to get to a point where we are in community providing service. And that service is recognized and appreciated and not frowned upon. And y'all, we get to choose. We have this brave new world in front of us, where we are creating and building things, we can decide to do it for each other. And that's where it begins. So again, it's like when we go out and we start to build these relationships, whether it's a client relationship, whether it's a friend relationship, whether it's a a romantic relationship, think about intentionally how you're allowing for yourself to be supported and how you're allowing for them to be supported because it's two sides of the equation and it's usually not equal and that is just going to be depending on our learned experiences, our borrowed experiences, but we can create we can start creating from now.

0:37:55

And I think what's key is that as I lean in to what I'm truly good at offering support at. The more freedom I feel to ask for my own report in the ways in which I need help. So it's it is reciprocity in a way that the more I give of the things that I can do for other people, the more I am willing to receive and return. Yeah. So give me an example. So we are here. And we are doing this as a reciprocal agreement that we have worked out in the past I'm going to be selling this time soon.

0:38:46

Already am. You can find information at prior harvey dot com slash partners. See, I'm getting so much better at this, Marissa. And what it is is that I give you access to my audience, my network. I get to use the system that I have created to give you all of this incredible content that you and let's be honest, not you. That Lacey is going to go out from here and take and turn into incredible things for you. And in return, I feel so much more comfortable asking for support.

0:39:31

Asking for people to buy, asking for people to subscribe, it just becomes a little bit easier every single time because I've knives that what I offer here is incredibly valuable. Yeah. It is. Yeah. It is. It it there used to be a lot of feelings. You know, deepen the chest feelings about me saying, this is something I'm good at. But in fact, I'm good at asking you questions and then allowing you to take that stuff and turn it into forever more. So here's an interesting thing when we look at your model with SUSCAC, so or for the investing in the network.

0:40:15

It's interesting when we talk about reciprocity. A lot of times what people will do is they will either completely pay wall their content, which I have done on my socials, mostly because I I I want people to like to be there. If you're a friend or family, you wanna come read my stuff. You do I just have a code. But what a lot of people will do is they'll put out a lot of free content and then they'll say, if you like this or if you want to have access centers, then you can pay for it. So this is reciprocity. I'm going to give you this free stuff, and I'm gonna hope that you like it enough, that you feel in a way that you would like to give to me. So here's where we look at our language. Because how we phrase this is every And I think you're doing a really great job building this stuff for the for the neurodiversity media network.

0:41:08

And because you could say, look, I'm doing all this work. If you have been enjoying it, like, or You can really frame it again as joyful. Right? Being able you know, if it's in your budget, being able to invest in something like this is powerful. But how you invest doesn't always have to be money. You invest by showing up and listening. You invest by reading the stuff. You invest by sharing it with other people. You Again, so it starts to change the equation. You're still asking for support. You're still asking for help, but you're talking about building it in terms of a convenience. It isn't that your labor is worth this. It absolutely one hundred percent is.

0:41:56

But once you start to bring in those elements, like where you've done all this work, you should pay to get access to it. That's when we start to see the things happen. And then you've now created this it's like, I just enjoy your I just enjoy your content, Briar. I don't wanna get into a relationship with you. I just You just want And you can. Every single day on just about any fucking network, you wanna have access to it because we stream everywhere. That's right. That's right.

0:42:29

And so part of it is when you when you do this. And this is too when you're giving money to this. Like, creator, I love the creator gig. I love the creator content network where we have taken the power out of singular monoliths. The the the NBCs of the world, the Disney of the world. But don't I love you. Those power magnets And now we're saying, I love what you're creating.

0:42:56

It brings me joy. It makes me feel a certain way. I have learned stuff. You're you're incredibly valuable in my life. I would like to compensate you in a manner that I would normally have done through the major media networks. That's powerful. Absolutely powerful.

0:43:12

When you give that money, you give it freely, without expectation for reciprocity. And here's what I will say to you, to anyone listening to this here now and forever in the future. When you give money and you expect a certain amount of performance from a creator, you need to recognize that that's a you prob problem and not the creator problem. Okay? Because the creative process has become so on demand, on request. Oh, yes. This is practical for how we live our lives. Actors had to have unions because they literally were making them do, like, twenty two episodes in three weeks. Okay? It's not practical. It's hard on the body. It's exhaustive. Okay? Now we're getting these eight segments, eight segments, but three weeks of you know, right? It's giving teams and and the the whole production team and the ability to rest and take time off. To create cool things for you. That's the same with your gig your creators out there in the world. If you donate it to somebody, you know, on TikTok or you've you know, you donate it to Briar, you have to understand that there are gonna be periods of rest rejuvenation, creativity, and that they don't owe you. Donate or give or invest because you just love seeing someone create, not for your future expectation of what they give you.

0:44:56

I think there's a lot to be said here to about para social relationships and the ways in which you know, it used to be mostly celebrities, but now you can know someone intimately online because they choose to put a significant portion of their life online. That doesn't mean you're entitled to any of that information. Yeah. You're not entitled to know anything about where they live, what their favorite color it, none of that. And you're not expected to their you're not entitled to their time. How much they create, what kind of topics they create. You're really not. Unless they've, you know, unless they've structured it so that, you know, you pay to determine what kind of food they're eating, and those are fun things too. But again, that's a reciprocal agreed upon contract unless you can go back and say, I absolutely agreed to pay you this money for this episode. You're giving as a part of supporting without strings, without the reciprocity return, without the ex expectation, and that's a beautiful thing.

0:46:17

I wanna wrap this up today by talking about the client relationship because there's a lot here when we pay for a service We absolutely expect it to be rendered. Yeah. And none of that is in dispute. But the way in which we read the service provider is perhaps something that we need to have conversation about. Yeah. And I mean, this is an interesting it's interesting because once money gets involved in anything, it can get dirty and nasty really quick. And there's no amount of money. Okay? There's no a lot of people will say the the person that gives you a hundred thousand dollars is better than the person that gives you a hundred dollars. That's a really nice propaganda to try and sell you on a coaching package to raise your prices. Okay? That's what that is. That is pretty much what that is.

0:47:29

Power and control happen both in poverty and in wealth. Okay? You you can be as poor as dirt and still want to have power over someone else. When we give money, money has been associated with power since it was created. Okay? And the more money we have, the more power we have. Okay? But and and also the less money we have, the more we crave that power, you know, because -- Yes. -- it seems awesome. It's not it's not. It's a lot of work. But here's the thing. If we are, again, contracts are a beautiful thing, make sure that you have the scope clearly defined.

0:48:16

But also have ongoing communications. I'm horrible. I will admit, I'm horrible at communications. When things are going awry, I hate telling people things are going not that I don't I don't mind telling people that things are going awry, but I don't I don't Austin will give updates in between because I wanna give them some good news or I wanna give them something substantial. But sometimes when things are going awry, you're waiting for other people. And then you're like, I'm still waiting for Bob to figure out his stuff. That doesn't sound good. So then I like a week goes by. I'm still waiting for Bob, and they're waiting for me. Right? And so I knew I need to get better at that.

0:48:49

From a communication standpoint. I recognize that. But it is it is something that we sometimes forget. We sometimes miss. Or we but we just get so overwhelmed and more worried that people are gonna hate us. Let's be let's be more gentle with each other. People okay. People get sick. People get hurt. I've told before about the story of my colleague who literally called me from the hospital minutes before they were gonna be put on a ventilator. Asking for help with a client because the client felt that they were shirking their duties. Right? This is where reciprocity is out of control. Great.

0:49:34

And then you have people who are like, well, I gave you money for this. So part of it is we have to take we have to take away the power of money. Mhmm. That's a bigger bigger task. I say this not lightly and not you know, like it's ever gonna happen. I'll ask anybody watching this now.

0:49:53

Look for ways that we can start to take the power out of money. Both in our own lives and in our communities and people say, but capitalism. It's like, well, capitalism is actually relatively young. So I think there's like some room here for us to move past capitalism. And capitalism has more than one theory. Two, the ways in which we benefit shareholders versus stockholders comes from one guy a hundred years ago and could just as easily be rewritten. Yeah. Yeah. A new economy is completely possible within our lifetime. I know it seems like it's been forever, but it really hasn't. Power though has. Okay? And so this is where we need to actually look for ways where we take the power out of money. Now part of this is that if we say if someone just has money, we have to do what they want, that's a good time to say no. Okay. Great.

0:50:56

If you're doing things for your client because they have paid you money and you feel like you owe them stuff, you owe them communication. You owe them contact. I know it's hard. And like I said, I've been there. I've been there so bad. I still have, like, I have emails. I got a reply to people a couple years later, and I will get to it. But it is hard. I get it. One hundred percent, I'm not taking that away from you. But just It's like b, start to recognize it. Start to recognize where we are allowing the tally of what we owe people to be bigger than what they think we owe them. As soon as we feel like it's heavier and we start to show that, the other person will feel that too.

0:51:48

You know, I have been in the room in more than one profit plan. Yeah. Right. And there's moments inevitably. And truly, no different than my own goddamn moment when we were doing my profit plan, where you look at the number and go, oh, that's a lot of fucking money. I gotta raise my prices. Yeah. And universally, there is some real feelings about this when people are like, I haven't been charging what I need to charge to feel like I am worth the service that I am off So here's the thing with profit plan too. And here's why and if you're wondering what the heck is the profit plan? Profit plan is, there's, like, the signature way that I recommend building your business. Built as a business owner.

0:52:45

The thing with the profit plan is it's not just about raising your prices. Sometimes it's about changing what you're selling. And the reason why I say this is because you can only as much as again, somebody's trying to sell you on a coaching package will try to tell you You can raise your prices. You can charge whatever you want. Free market, blah, blah, blah, to a point. There is a point where the market won't hold it or you don't have the capacity to go to a new audience that will hold that. That thing. And that is a very real thing that we have to look at in business. It isn't just as simple as raising your prices. But what the profit plan does is it says, This is the amount of money that you actually need in your life to thrive. Nothing else.

0:53:24

Then we actually look at the products and the prices, to see if it this is reciprocity too. We look in your business. We look and see if the products and packages that you're offering can even return that. Because that's I think that is a that's almost of actually a more of a wound for people because they poured their heart and soul into creating this product or this package. They've marketed it. They've told everybody every benefit about it. They've showed it off. They've done reels. They've done tick talks. They've demoed it. They've talked and they are exhausted about it, and it was never meant to be sold. Because you just can't. There's either no audience or it's at a price point that you don't have an audience and you don't have capacity to build it because it takes money and time to build an audience. Or you it's just it's it's not right. It's not right for you.

0:54:21

So when we look at the profit plan, we start with you. We start with you and your business. What do you need? And then we build the reciprocity in there. We build the products and the packages that you love to sell at the price point that gets you there. And that's where we take we take the the the wound out of the money Right. Because it's just numbers at this point in time. Yeah. This is the number you need to sell. This is how much you need to charge And this is what it looks like to work it backwards to get there.

0:54:53

And I think, truly, once people are over the shock, of this revelation, the the grace and the ease that settles in pretty profound. It certainly has been for me. It's why we're here doing this because my profit plan said, oh, you're not you're going about this all wrong. I have these things that I was doing that I didn't necessarily love doing. And now In order for you to get to your number, I'll tell on you a little bit.

0:55:27

In order case number, you had to go create a new audience -- Uh-huh. -- at a at a significantly higher price pack. You point point, you could do it. Uh-huh. One hundred percent. What and what I said was she was was it was it is it worth it? Right. And then you said, you know what I'd really like to do? I wanna build a media network. And I'm like, oh Five months later. Okay. Here we are. And we ran the numbers and we said, jeez. It's actually less work And this is where the people who are, like, high ticket lovers are, like, well, you only have to get ten customers at this point.

0:56:04

To get this point, or you have to get a thousand yeah. But you know what? Sometimes, building a thousand pull this first point. It's twenty five dollars a month. Y'all. It's twenty five dollars a month if you like more. It's a secret. It's a same amount of work to get ten people as it is as a thousand. But nobody wants to talk about that because that doesn't sell package. But I will tell you that right now. It's the same amount of work.

0:56:28

So do do what you love. Uh-huh. Do what you love. Do build the reciprocity in your own business with your products and packages and the things that you're doing for your business. Build the reciprocity so that it feels good in there. Agree to your own contract. Create a contract with yourself about what you're willing to do for your business. And that goes from your taxes to your packages of your products that you're creating, create a contract with yourself and build that reciprocity. Be supported. Support yourself, but be supported. Uh-huh.

0:56:58

And yeah, also go look at Briars model. This is gonna be a game changer, what Briar is building here is a significant contribution to what's out there right now. From a community building. It's a different kind of community building than what we do in the catalyst. But it is a community. It is communal marketing. It is building a surge of energy and connection and collaboration, and it's worth investing in. Coming in now as an early investor is going to benefit you in the long run because there's things that are coming, you're gonna be able to see the whole arc. Come in as a show. Come in as a sponsor. Come in as a viewer or an engager, but invest in it. It's worth it. This is gonna be a game changer. Three to five years from now, you're going to see prior being interviewed on big stages about why prior thought to connect and create this because it's going to be a model for what other what other people are going to be doing in their business.

0:58:04

I rarely am wrong about my predictions when it comes to these things and you can ask anyone where they're like, oh my god. It yeah. When I say these things, it's going to -- It does. -- it really does. It really does. Sometimes it's been like seven to ten years later, but honestly, I'm going to tell you right now, come in now as an early investor or an early show.

0:58:28

To be in this network because it will be it'll have a significant ripple effect. Thank you. Truly, And it's because I believe that we all have room to grow. There is enough for everyone. My network isn't better than your network but our networks together can build something incredible. And it's truly been a labor of love and I am deeply grateful to have you on this journey with me.

0:59:08

We needed to have, like, seven nation army to start playing. It's like, Like, as you were saying that. Because that that's what it is. Start building. The eagles are coming. The eagles are coming. Like, start building. I'm such a nerd, but, like, start commenting I get all those references. All of them. Bring those in bring the armies to you. Bring the the audiences together, bring the communities together, bring the connections together, and start to see who you can collaborate with with a healthy reciprocity.

0:59:41

Y'all, thank you so much for being here today. This episode has been absolutely incredible. If you wanna find more about marissa. It is create the rules dot com. If you would like to join the catalyst, my affiliate link is briar harvey dot com slash catalyst. If you would like to find out more about getting your own show, about advertising, that's briar harvey dot com slash partners, we would love to see you on this journey with us because we're doing it together. That's what's key. We're not doing it alone anymore. No more of this going it alone shit. We do it better together. We do it better together. Alright. I'll We will see you next time. Thanks so much for being here. Have an amazing, amazing day.

Shownotes created by https://podium.page